[quote]pat wrote:
Who’s Bill Nye and why should anybody give a shit what he thinks?[/quote]
Because he has a valid point. America’s cult of creationism makes Americans look backwards, ignorant and unenlightened to the rest of the world. The result of this ignorance is a loss of credibility. [/quote]
Well when the rest of the world reaps the benefits from America going to Mars, you know…[/quote]
Implying all of America is responsible for getting to Mars.[/quote]
Leaving aside the giant side track currently going on in the thread, nah I don’t think that’s a necessary implication to suggest the rest of the world will reap the benefits. You don’t have to have the entire populace of a country involved to make it that country’s achievement. Besides, you can make a point that it IS at least half the country’s achievement because taxes payed the bills for us to buy and build the stuff to get there, which would have been impossible without the money. And secondly, care to point us to any other country (small groups of people or whole populace) that has even got to the moon? Nah.
I’m not playing “team America” partisan here, but I think it’s a kind of silly counterpoint for you to try to bring up for a variety of reasons.
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:<<< I have zero desire to change you and no pity at all, a simple yes would’ve done.
I’m the one yawning. >>>[/quote]Fair enough.[quote]Neuromancer wrote:<<< You mistake correlation for causation. >>>[/quote]No. I most assuredly do not. I know what a fallacious “post hoc ergo propter hoc” postulation is. The spiritual history of this once great nation is not one, despite all the frenzied revision being employed to declare that it is.
[/quote]
Let’s be honest. If a majority of Americans don’t become faithful Catholics in communion with the Church, it’s going to be a rough ride down hill. Western Civilization really started down hill with the Reformation, kept going down with the Enlightenment, and took a turn for the worst with the French Revolution and started picking out it’s grave with Modernism at the beginning of the 20th Century. Ten stacks says the Evil One’s hand has been in on it all along.[/quote]You really don’t wanna do this one now Chris. This is where Sloth ran away. You cannot win that debate. Even the pagans will side with me when it’s over. I’m still waiting for a reply in the Romans 2 thread. That thread has been all over. It’s be great to get it back on track. You can go ahead ya know. Your work is already done for you. Hundreds of years ago no? Tell us what the divinely authorized interpretation of chapter 2 13-15 is. I have to actually research pray and study. I will not now be drawn into this debate you brought up here now though I will take no joy in spanking you firmly when we get to it =] I’m juggling waaay too many things already.
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Too bad it doesn’t matter if the whole world sides with you. Truth is truth. Or are you a relativist now, majority rules God? There is not one divinely authorized interpretation of Romans 2:13-15. Just shows that you don’t understand Catholicism once again.
[quote]pat wrote:
Who’s Bill Nye and why should anybody give a shit what he thinks?[/quote]
Because he has a valid point. America’s cult of creationism makes Americans look backwards, ignorant and unenlightened to the rest of the world. The result of this ignorance is a loss of credibility. [/quote]
Well when the rest of the world reaps the benefits from America going to Mars, you know…[/quote]
Implying all of America is responsible for getting to Mars.[/quote]
No but neither does all of America believe in creationism, either.
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:<<< I have zero desire to change you and no pity at all, a simple yes would’ve done.
I’m the one yawning. >>>[/quote]Fair enough.[quote]Neuromancer wrote:<<< You mistake correlation for causation. >>>[/quote]No. I most assuredly do not. I know what a fallacious “post hoc ergo propter hoc” postulation is. The spiritual history of this once great nation is not one, despite all the frenzied revision being employed to declare that it is.
[/quote]
Let’s be honest. If a majority of Americans don’t become faithful Catholics in communion with the Church, it’s going to be a rough ride down hill. Western Civilization really started down hill with the Reformation, kept going down with the Enlightenment, and took a turn for the worst with the French Revolution and started picking out it’s grave with Modernism at the beginning of the 20th Century. Ten stacks says the Evil One’s hand has been in on it all along.[/quote]
You have it upside down, When the reformation took place Europa was on the rise allready and it only went up from there. 1492, 1498, The enlightment, The industrial revolution, the colonies all over the world etc. Its just know that the west are being challenged again by China, that are soon to be the largest economy again( its perhaps 200-250 years ago it was the biggest economy ). The period you glorifys is regarded as a downturn for Europa by most. The Muslim world was the cultural high cultur in that period and China was the biggest economy. Europa on the other hand was splintered in small autocracys in constant war with eachother( except the crusades )over petty matters.( Now this constant bickering gave us an upperhand later, but I want not go into this here )
Fun fact: Weber attributed the rise of industrial capitalism with calvinism. He is propably wrong about that IMO, but found it funny and somewhat relevant to your post.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< Too bad it doesn’t matter if the whole world sides with you. Truth is truth. Or are you a relativist now, majority rules God? There is not one divinely authorized interpretation of Romans 2:13-15. Just shows that you don’t understand Catholicism once again.[/quote]This argument would be from history Chris.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:<<< Uh…Israel maybe? Chosen, like, explicitly in the Bible?[/quote]I have to just say that I cannot do it dude. Not now. Humongous discussion required here. You owe me a PM. I received correction from you and publicly gave you credit (though I still messed up again) and then asked you a question like 6 or 7 months ago and you never answered despite my very cordial attempts.
In the words of John Adams “The United States of America governments have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.”
And here is the treaty of Tripoli for you. Unless you want to argue that its demonic anti christian revisionist history. “The Treaty of Tripoli (Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary) was the first treaty concluded between the United States of America and Tripolitania, signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796 and at Algiers (for a third-party witness) on January 3, 1797. It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797.
“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,?as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],?and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”
The treaty is cited as historical evidence in the modern day controversy over whether there was religious intent by the founders of the United States government. Article 11 of the treaty has been interpreted as an official denial of a Christian basis for the U.S. government.[3]”
Evolution and Creationism are not mutually exclusive views by the way. That’s simply a false dichotomy. Its quite logical to feel that God who created the Universe is everything in the Universe as well, including the laws of science.
Evolution and Creationism are not mutually exclusive views by the way. That’s simply a false dichotomy. Its quite logical to feel that God who created the Universe is everything in the Universe as well, including the laws of science.
[quote]Legionary wrote:
Evolution and Creationism are not mutually exclusive views by the way. That’s simply a false dichotomy. Its quite logical to feel that God who created the Universe is everything in the Universe as well, including the laws of science.
[quote]pat wrote:
Who’s Bill Nye and why should anybody give a shit what he thinks?[/quote]
Because he has a valid point. America’s cult of creationism makes Americans look backwards, ignorant and unenlightened to the rest of the world. The result of this ignorance is a loss of credibility. [/quote]Is that so? Actually, the further we get away from it the weaker we become. This man Astronaut Neil Armstrong dies at 82 | Fox News read the creation account from the bible on the moon under our flag on live international television in 1969. How credible do you think we were then?
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Yes that is so. The moon landings were over 40 years ago. The moon landings in turn were 40 years after the Scopes monkey trial. A lot has changed since then. We didn’t get to the moon by doggedly clinging to religious dogma even when it was contradicted by scientific discovery.
Discovery and knowledge do not weaken us. The fact that you could make such an absurd suggestion proves my point. You are letting flawed dogma blind you to reality.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Oh there you are. With another bit o trivia long dealt with already.[/quote]
Evolution and Creationism are not mutually exclusive views by the way. That’s simply a false dichotomy. Its quite logical to feel that God who created the Universe is everything in the Universe as well, including the laws of science.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Oh there you are. With another bit o trivia long dealt with already.[/quote]
Evolution and Creationism are not mutually exclusive views by the way. That’s simply a false dichotomy. Its quite logical to feel that God who created the Universe is everything in the Universe as well, including the laws of science.
Address this then.[/quote]Evolution and Christianity are mutually exclusive. I do not care what the pathetic spiritually castrated modernistic church spews forth allegedly in the name of Jesus. I’m not interested in pantheistic anti Christian views of God either. Laws of science? Really? I’m still waiting for you in the epistemology thread. If it weren’t the God everybody is so anxious to expunge from our consciousness, the God who is actually there, you would have no laws of anything.
@Sifu: You missed my point completely but that’s ok.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Oh there you are. With another bit o trivia long dealt with already.[/quote]
Evolution and Creationism are not mutually exclusive views by the way. That’s simply a false dichotomy. Its quite logical to feel that God who created the Universe is everything in the Universe as well, including the laws of science.
Address this then.[/quote]Evolution and Christianity are mutually exclusive. I do not care what the pathetic spiritually castrated modernistic church spews forth allegedly in the name of Jesus. I’m not interested in pantheistic anti Christian views of God either. Laws of science? Really? I’m still waiting for you in the epistemology thread. If it weren’t the God everybody is so anxious to expunge from our consciousness, the God who is actually there, you would have no laws of anything.
@Sifu: You missed my point completely but that’s ok.
[/quote]
I still don’t get why all the stories in the bible are supposed to be taken literally. And I don’t see why a triune god wouldn’t make evolution the means of creating man.
[quote]Legionary wrote:
Evolution and Creationism are not mutually exclusive views by the way. That’s simply a false dichotomy. Its quite logical to feel that God who created the Universe is everything in the Universe as well, including the laws of science.
Address this then.[/quote]
I like to say Science is God’s operating system[/quote]
Very true but its unclear to me if God just presides over the operating system or actually is the operating system.
Tiribulus is just like every other religious person that picks what parts of the bible that he wants to believe and follow, while ignoring the less tasteful bits.
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:<<< Are you part of the 6000 year old young earth cult?[/quote]Wrong thread, but in short Yes. Give or take. There are those who believe in an old creation, but who do also believe that the triune God of the bible did indeed create from nothing everything that is, save for Himself alone, including man in His own image from the dust of the earth and all very good. I disagree vehemently, but don’t beat such people up too badly. There is however nothing so manifestly anti Christian AND idiotic as bio macro evolution. It is pure unadulterated fantastic delusion and the church renders herself impotent to the degree with which she embraces this crippling demonic deception. Do I need to be any clearer? Please do not waste either of our time with abucnha so called “evidence”. I’ve seen it ALL ten trillion times. (yawns… wide) You asked. I answered. Carry on. Who cares what a wet brain fundy moron like me thinks anyway? Right? I have your pity. I know. Thank you so much for your concern.
The point is, the peak of our credibility was punctuated exactly BY what this man says is ruining it. Our credibility is dying because WE’RE dying and we’re dying because we have abandoned the very principles that made us great and hence credible in a rather loud glaring and spectacular fashion.
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The last time I read Genesis it was in was the first chapter of the Torah which is the the old testament. The Torah is Judaism not Christianity. The New testament which is based upon the life and ministry of Jesus is Christianity.
So you are wrong about evolution being anti-Christian. What is anti-Christian is clinging to an old testament story in a way that makes Christians look backwards and unscientific. It’s alienating people from Jesus for no good reason.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:<<< I still don’t get why all the stories in the bible are supposed to be taken literally. And I don’t see why a triune god wouldn’t make evolution the means of creating man.[/quote]ALL the stories aren’t supposed to be Fletch. It’s fairly easy to tell though which ones are and which ones aren’t. The triune God could have created any way He decided to. Including evolution, but that’s not what he said so that’s not how it happened. Either God created man from the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life making him a living soul and women out of the man’s side in what was less than an afternoon for each OR man evolved over a gazillion years with lots and lots of death BEFORE death is said to have entered the picture. Can’t be both and isn’t. Evolution is a lie. And a bad one. I never even REALLY bought evolution before I was a Christian (not that I thought it about all that much). It takes more faith to believe that than it does to believe the Genesis account by far.
[quote]Sifu wrote:<<< The last time I read Genesis it was in was the first chapter of the Torah which is the the old testament. The Torah is Judaism not Christianity. The New testament which is based upon the life and ministry of Jesus is Christianity. So you are wrong about evolution being anti-Christian. What is anti-Christian is clinging to an old testament story in a way that makes Christians look backwards and unscientific. It’s alienating people from Jesus for no good reason. [/quote] I’m gonna make up some certificates and start sending them out. They’ll be “You really don’t know a thing about Christianity dude” certificates. Headhunter gets the first one though.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:Tiribulus is just like every other religious person that picks what parts of the bible that he wants to believe and follow, while ignoring the less tasteful bits. http://sciencebasedlife.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/biblecontradictions-reasonproject.png [/quote]You are SO far behind man LOL!! I’m not really makin funnaya dude. You just don’t know because you haven’t been in these debates very long. Hack n slash monumentally ignorant bible butchery sites are a dime a dozen. I’ve got some more cool links if ya need any.
[quote]Legionary wrote:You must inherit your reason from this bronze age primitive, an adherent to the detestable Old Testament. >>>[/quote]Oops. I almost forgot you bud. Sorry about that. No epistemology thread then huh? I wonder if this could be another HeadHunter account. Nah.
So what makes genesis one of the books to be taken literally? If you quote scripture, I’ll read it. Just keep in mind that I’ll be reading it with pagan eyes.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:Tiribulus is just like every other religious person that picks what parts of the bible that he wants to believe and follow, while ignoring the less tasteful bits. http://sciencebasedlife.files…[/quote]
You are SO far behind man LOL!! I’m not really makin funnaya dude. You just don’t know because you haven’t been in these debates very long. Hack n slash monumentally ignorant bible butchery sites are a dime a dozen. I’ve got some more cool links if ya need any. [/quote]
Laugh all you want Tiribulus, it doesn’t make what you believe any truer.
Even funnier, is that you’re telling me that I’m far behind when you’re the one believing in 2000 year old fairy tales.
