^Regarding the larger point about Maher and history: yes, Christianity has been a great aid to the bloodthirsty in history. But do the European Religious Wars or the Inquisition belong in a discussion about terrorism in 2013? No–just like China would be rightly laughed out of the room if it tried to slap us with the Tuskegee experiments as a cover for its human rights violations. “I get to be an asshole because your great great great grandfather was an asshole” is not a strong argument.
For the record I dislike Christianity. But I’m not about to pretend that it’s something it isn’t just to make good Muslims feel better about their unsavory fellow-travelers.
SMH: good points and to a degree I do agree but yes unfortunately people who are ‘declaring war against the American powers that be’ are in fact doing it for the sins of our grandfathers. We have heard this over and over again. I do not agree with this. I do not support a lot of what is said and happened in our history books but we are in fact, in a very big way, being punished for our history. Even if it was just back to the Clinton admin or what ever president decided to piss who ever off.
Was Iraq a holy war? Yes, in a way, that is my point. Bush claimed that god told him to invade Iraq, this is a fact and you would have to look it up. He had a prayer team for christs sake…
To say it was in retaliation…of course it was. Didn’t a lot of people claim it was vengeance for what Osama tried to do to his father? Sins of the father right? I do think for this Maher to have a tv show and access to a camera and allow a disjointed, retarded sense of theological breakdowns is absurd. We must remember the Koran comes from the bible, one influences the other. In the span of a couple hundred years the number of people who have died in the name of Mohammad are vastly out number the ones who died in the name of Christ. We wiped entire ‘civilizations’ off the map under the cross. and now we are upset because a few people in the desert are upset about that? Should we be?
If you look at everyones reaction post the boston bombs we immediately we looking for muslim/black/middle easterners. We found Russians but besides that most peoples reaction was to kill the offenders and seek “justice.” Justice under what? By who? Our country is under God. Which one though? So if we strike back, in a defense of our country, we are doing so as well under “our” god, against theirs, because WE know what is right and just. BUT we say that it is for our freedom and claim it as an act of war. BUT if they strike against us under the name of our god, we wont strike back on principle, we will strike because their god is wrong, making it a holy war.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Bush claimed that god told him to invade Iraq, this is a fact and you would have to look it up. He had a prayer team for christs sake…[/quote]
Indeed. And I have often wondered whether or not he actually believed this. I suspect not, but assuming that he did: I don’t think that is near enough to have made the invasion a “holy war.” Even after you’ve dug through all of the political topsoil, you’re left with a religiously agnostic philosophical justification for war: Saddam is a bad man, he has dangerous weapons and is making more dangerous ones. And then even deeper: a democracy in the ME will be good for the United States. A lot of this turned out to be bullshit–e.g., aluminum tubes–but it wouldn’t be fair to say at any level that religiosity played any more than a superficial (but still inappropriate) role in the war’s rhetoric, which is to say nothing of its actual substance.
As for Islam/Christianity: the worst that Western Christian fundamentalists (excluding deranged lone wolfs, of course) do is try to stop kids from learning science. That’s annoying and it can certainly lead to dark places, but it couldn’t hold a candle to the worst of Islamic fundamentalism in terms of insidiousness or gravity. The WBC nutjobs are the most perverted American Christian offshoot with more than a couple of adherents and some measure of palpable power over the media, and the Jihadists make even them seem like upstanding citizens of the world.
In other words, once a movement with true political power and millions of at least partial sympathizers grows up out of an explicitly Christian tradition–and one, mind you, that isn’t entirely heterodox–and begins slaughtering people for the sake of it, then I’ll relent. Until then, I have more disdain for Islam as a whole than for Christianity as a whole (which is not to say that I bear an ounce of ill will toward any given Muslim, which I do not).
I find no religion to be better than any other, they are all from the early days of humanity, except the silly ones like scientology.
The problem with islam is that it is more of a political system than for example christianity. Norway is very secular, and that makes having a daughter nice, because she has all the same rights and possibilities as a man. If the massive import of muslim in Norway continues, we could one day end up like Iran, and silly priests/mullahs will get to decide over women and men.
Iran is one of the worlds biggest tragedies because of Islam, and it seems the “arabian spring” has created similar countries. In Sweden there are cities that are ruled by sharia law already, Norway is usually about 20 years behind Sweden, so I am a bit worried.
Also, take a look at opinion polling. At the outset of the Arab Spring, some pundits raised the point that a number of scientific polls conducted throughout Muslim countries suggest that democracy may not be a great thing in the Islamic world. Whether or not that conclusion is justified, the point holds true that mainstream Muslim convictions have a tinge of violence and hostility that you don’t find in the Christian West.
Maher alluded to this with the line about people who insult the Prophet “having what’s coming to them.” Anecdotal evidence of this can be found in the mainstream Muslim reaction to the Danish cartoons, for example. And there is no equivalent mainstream Christian phenomenon like the Salman Rushdie fatwa–issued, it should be noted, by an extremely powerful religious leader [would a Pope say something so medieval?]. Just to take a few of literally thousands of examples.
Crazy muslims in Europe, Middle east, North Africa, and Asia.
In the Last 20 years, How acts of Terrorism have been committed by Muslims?
yes there have been some nutty Chirstians but nothing on the scale of damage
and Death caused by Muslims.
It one thing to be politically correct, Quite another to turn a blind eye to facts and events
It safe to assume Muslims are more inclined to Violence, Obviously.
SMH: So true man, and those are very good points albeit it that some are straight from the media. Did Bush believe that, I would say yeah. Were we even supposed to invade Iraq?..Questionable? If the “reasons” you stated above were bullshit…then what? What is the reason? Peoples information and then dissection of that information is alarming. People promote 'Murica and its reasons and concerning 911 and I ask a simple question: how many towers fell? 9-10 times the say 2…that worries me. It worries me because they believe fully that a group of radicals are responsible for an entire religion. Are there no other fanatics not bombing abortion clinics? Not setting people on fire? Not drowning kids in bath tubs? Killing queers? So many people kill in the name of their god everyday. So a group of radicals gets a large number every couple of years on American soil and their nuts? Christians do the same thing just with smaller numbers spread out over a longer period of time. They may not do it in mass numbers in mass amounts of terrorism but still there is as Rage puts it “killin in the name of.”
A lot of the Americans who signed up for the invasion of Iraq and fought against Afgan/Iraq/ Want to fight Iran are under the cross, so though the country does not say the war is for god, though the country is ruled by it, the soliders, the ones fighting believe that it is a war for god. That these fucked up sand dwellers are out to take over because their books says so but our book says they are wrong and immoral. Our (Christian/Judia) book says we are right.
It still results in discussion the issue of interpretation of text. Islam does not entirely preach the destruction of others, though people may feel free to quote passages, the same can be done for any religion (except maybe Buddhism) where crazy, nutty off the wall shit is said.
Christians think gay is a sin, so is divorce, punishable by stoning…now what? We are one nation under god, most of our decisions and counter arguments are made by this guise.
Democracy??..it hardly works here.
The violence of Christians vs islamists isn’t an equal one. Are we mad because the bomb our soldiers with IEDs? Probably, we invaded their friggin country. We may, or may not, have had a few extremists come over and tear down some towers in the name of their god. People from Christianity have done the same. Our drones are probably led by people who believe what they do is righteous. Christians were the ones to hang blacks from trees, to beat/kill/ gays/ Jews? What about WWI/II? They did it because a book told them to…but it isn’t close to what Islam is doing? Really? Its hard to make these kind of connections. Going back to Maher that dude made an entire movie about fanatics and think it justified atheism/agnosticism, come on, he never argues fairly, so why would this video be any different? He has no valid or true points.
Plus: haven’t in the past decade a few “radical” Christians bombed/shot a few mosques and muslims or people of eastern looking decent? Or does that stuff not really make the news?
Speaking of which, the jews have been awfully silent…some one should check on them…
Islam will not stop until they have brought to heel all other religions…it is a religion that controls entire countries.
Forbids women to have even the most basic of rights.
Throws out death Fatwas at ANYBODY who pisses them off.
Have no problem suicide bombing innocent women and children, and then building their military bases under schools and hospitals.
They will out kill or out breed everybody until they win, they cannot stop…and western countries hand over the keys with public services and assistance.
haha very true…
Utah: Islam or radicals? Christians did that at one point too. Islamic Radicals may just be a few 100/1000 years behind. North Korea is mainly atheist…so even no gods have bad intentions
I think unfortunately a lot of this comes down to grouping and “one bad apple spoils the bunch.” Lets believe everything at face value for 911, not all islam is for that. Are all blacks bad? All jews evil? We are grouping and that is a very dangerous thing to do. It is not the entire state or religion of islam, that is a very foolish thing to say.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
It is not the entire state or religion of islam, that is a very foolish thing to say. [/quote]
I am curious…did you see the video from middle eastern nations when 9/11 happened? Dancing in the streets…did you see it?
Islamic Clerics RULE countries my man, Islam is now seeping into the entire African continent…women no longer have rights in these places…rape is an acceptable tool to cow women and assert control in muslim countries…how is that ok?
It may not be the ENTIRE Islamic religion, but these are not lunatic fringe they run the damn countries.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
North Korea is mainly atheist…so even no gods have bad intentions
[/quote]
North Korea is a necrocracy where they think the Kim Il-sung grandfather is a god/eternal leader. He is still a more forgiving god than Yahwe though
haha, yeah I saw some footage of people dancing and singing… I have no idea what for. I also saw a video completely fall on its own. I saw videos of fire fighters saying there were explosions in Tower 1&2. I saw video of the fire chief saying no plane crash happened in a field in Penn. Do I believe everything I see? No.
I also saw a lot of cheering when we said “mission accomplished.” I saw a lot of people cheering, FROM IRAQ when we hung Sadam. I saw cheering when we shot Osama…fuck we made movies about it! Academy awarding winning movies. I don’t believe everything I see especially on the news. The are saying the older brother was killed in a violent gun battle with police…his brother ran him over and dragged him down the street… I have seen and met islamics who give up information, became police officers, help our soliders wounded and not who are ISLAMIC.
Read Lone Survivor, perfect example of not all Muslims as bad muslims. In that particular moment we was completely saved by these “American hating, 100 year war waging, freedom killing monsters.” How do you think this war got started? You don’t think we helped them out? Who trained the Talban? Where did the ak47s come from? RPGs? Who do you think trained em? So whyd they turn?
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
haha, yeah I saw some footage of people dancing and singing… I have no idea what for. I also saw a video completely fall on its own. I saw videos of fire fighters saying there were explosions in Tower 1&2. I saw video of the fire chief saying no plane crash happened in a field in Penn. Do I believe everything I see? No. I also saw a lot of cheering when we said “mission accomplished.” I saw a lot of people cheering, FROM IRAQ when we hung Sadam. I saw cheering when we shot Osama…fuck we made movies about it! Academy awarding winning movies. I don’t believe everything I see especially on the news. The are saying the older brother was killed in a violent gun battle with police…his brother ran him over and dragged him down the street… I have seen and met islamics who give up information, became police officers, help our soliders wounded and not who are ISLAMIC. Read Lone Survivor, perfect example of not all Muslims as bad muslims. In that particular moment we was completely saved by these “American hating, 100 year war waging, freedom killing monsters.” How do you think this war got started? You don’t think we helped them out? Who trained the Talban? Where did the ak47s come from? RPGs? Who do you think trained em? So whyd they turn? [/quote]
Dude, I don’t mind chatting with ya…but can we get a few paragraph breaks mixed in there.
Thanks!
You are comparing countries and religions…has America done some shady shit? No doubt! But Islam is not a specific state. It is many, MANY states and countries around the world.
The constitution does not say we will never rest until we have total world domination…but the Koran says that they cannot rest until all the infidels are either converted or killed.
And when you have 500 million Muslims who take that shit seriously…that’s a big fucking problem.
Yes, but Christians do preach something similar right? You go to hell if Christ is not your lord and savior no? We ran with that a long time. Well, Islam is doing the same thing in a kind of fashion, Fascism, and we are getting twittered pated about it. Shit, not long ago we Christians considered blacks - non/sub human. They don’t think gays are the same equality and will eventually burn. Countries are lead by religion. There was one dude, who was Christian, and set out of world domination…
So are all Germans Nazi’s?? All Russians Communists? No but we sure as hell ran with that for a while. I don’t think Islam is dangerous, I think ignorance towards Islam and its radicals are dangerous, just as anyone who is a radical is dangerous.
You think Christianity doesn’t say some crazy shit? You can cut a womens hand on if she hits you (husband and wife though). Incest? Anyone who has had testicles or their penis removed is not allowed in heaven. Dude, the Christian god itself granted pain towards women in childbirth. Lot offered his virgin daughters. Women as property (why do you think they couldn’t vote for so long?) You get upset about Islamic wear for women, ever see a nun? Sex slavery? A rape manual? Women must listen to their husbands? Women as second Class citizens? St. Paul said women must be silent and cant teach men in church. The Koran came after the bible where the hell do you think they got the idea!?
But we are reformed right? We know better? Ever been to Utah, Utah? No radicals there right? No one bending words of a book, trying to sell it to others. Caffeine isn’t a sin right? What about my NO Explode??
Point being, radicals are dangerous. People who take supposedly the words of god and bend them to fit are dangerous.
Latest media article says the younger brother of the Beantown Bombings was self actualized by shit he read on radical websites online…Surely they don’t have those for Christians? This is the pot calling the kettle black. Its stupid.
As far as Catholics go youre talking about an organization who have raped more children then American soldiers have died in the Iraq war…so are all Catholics rapists? People, including Maher are doing simple math Islamic+N=Terrorist and its not that way. You know there are islamics for jesus? Ive seen them. Revelations is Christianity killing the world who aren’t Christians…what other kind of world domination are you looking for?
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Ever been to Utah, Utah? No radicals there right? No one bending words of a book, trying to sell it to others. Caffeine isn’t a sin right? What about my NO Explode??
[/quote]
I live in Utah…sure their are hard core mormons here. But they don’t kill you if you don’t want to be one. They don’t put a hit out on your life and your families life if you speak out in public against the LDS church.
Sorry for the FOX source, but this is what happens if you speak out in an Islamic country.
There are extremists in every religion to be sure. But the extremists in Christianity are not running countries.
