[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:
what about grip strength and forearms lagging as a result?
maybe it’s just me but when I ditched the straps and used weights I could actually hold, I finally established a decent MMC with my lats. of course, I’m sure this is different for the two of you and other guys bigger than me but I doubt OP falls into that category.[/quote]
After using straps for a few months I get a good MMC even without straps. You can eat the cake and have it.
[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
It really comes down to this… do you prefer having a stronger grip or better lats.[/quote]
I suppose the trade offs are all aroung us.
I have never used straps for deadlifts, but wouldn’t row, chin, clean, or shrug without them. I get the pratical reasons for considering grip strength, but no one every looked across the gym and said “Look at the grip on that guy”. You only have to be strong enough to hold your best pull. If you think your grip is a weakness, work it directly. Once a week hang from the chin bar as long as you can…just hang for time. Once you can hang for three minutes or more, I suspect your grip issue will be resolved. It may takes years to build a decent set of traps, improvements in grip strength are just a matter of exposure.
[/quote]
different strokes for different folks I suppose. I see a lot of unimpressive-looking guys at the gym using straps on weights that are clearly too heavy for them. I don’t want to be that guy.
I do suppose that I’ll start using straps when my working weights are too heavy for my grip. [/quote]
There is a difference between using strap for a weight too heavy for you and using strap because your grip is the first thing giving up in a well executed movement
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
It really comes down to this… do you prefer having a stronger grip or better lats.[/quote]
I suppose the trade offs are all aroung us.
I have never used straps for deadlifts, but wouldn’t row, chin, clean, or shrug without them. I get the pratical reasons for considering grip strength, but no one every looked across the gym and said “Look at the grip on that guy”. You only have to be strong enough to hold your best pull. If you think your grip is a weakness, work it directly. Once a week hang from the chin bar as long as you can…just hang for time. Once you can hang for three minutes or more, I suspect your grip issue will be resolved. It may takes years to build a decent set of traps, improvements in grip strength are just a matter of exposure.
[/quote]
different strokes for different folks I suppose. I see a lot of unimpressive-looking guys at the gym using straps on weights that are clearly too heavy for them. I don’t want to be that guy.
I do suppose that I’ll start using straps when my working weights are too heavy for my grip. [/quote]
There is a difference between using strap for a weight too heavy for you and using strap because your grip is the first thing giving up in a well executed movement[/quote]
Yes, and with most gyms the equipment doesnt have the best grip + sweaty hands your grip WILL fail before your lats do if dont have straps or atleast chalk.
Weighted pullups. 'nuff said.
There are other ways to work your grip. If you’re ramping your weight just don’t use the straps till your maximal weights.
Your back will be stronger than your grip or forearms so it doesn’t really make sense to short-change back or lat development to accommodate grip work. If you feel that your grip is holding you back do less work with straps. If your goal is a bigger back then it might be time to strap up.
[quote]Rush88 wrote:
There are other ways to work your grip. If you’re ramping your weight just don’t use the straps till your maximal weights.
Your back will be stronger than your grip or forearms so it doesn’t really make sense to short-change back or lat development to accommodate grip work. If you feel that your grip is holding you back do less work with straps. If your goal is a bigger back then it might be time to strap up.[/quote]
Something like this. I mean, I have small hands, and will often work up to 275-315 on rows, shrugs, deficit romanian DLs, etc, without straps. But if grip will be a limiting factor on work sets, I use them. Simple as that. I’ve deadlifted 685 with only chalk, so I don’t think my grip has really held me back as far as that goes. If someone REALLY notices grip strength going down the drain, shit, add in some grip work. Don’t make the rest of your body suffer.
Pull with your elbows, pre exhaust if you have to, 2 vertical pulls and 2 horizontal pulls works great, MMC is key. I think going heavy in back work is awesome too if you have a great mmc already, if you dont its moreso a waste of time for lats
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
Pull with your elbows, pre exhaust if you have to, 2 vertical pulls and 2 horizontal pulls works great, MMC is key. I think going heavy in back work is awesome too if you have a great mmc already, if you dont its moreso a waste of time for lats[/quote]
Pre-exhaustion is a good tip, it helped me personally to feel my lats working. Usually a movement that doesn’t involve the biceps is good, CT talks about this as well. Doing that I can actually feel my lats pulling on weighted pullups. Thumbless grips may work as well for you.
[quote]Rush88 wrote:
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
Pull with your elbows, pre exhaust if you have to, 2 vertical pulls and 2 horizontal pulls works great, MMC is key. I think going heavy in back work is awesome too if you have a great mmc already, if you dont its moreso a waste of time for lats[/quote]
Pre-exhaustion is a good tip, it helped me personally to feel my lats working. Usually a movement that doesn’t involve the biceps is good, CT talks about this as well. Doing that I can actually feel my lats pulling on weighted pullups. Thumbless grips may work as well for you.[/quote]
not to sure on what you mean by pre-exhaust? seem like it’s looking like i should be getting the straps out again. i read on another thread about a high insertion point for someones lats, is that just where the muscle development first appears on the torso?
Heavy shrugs before pull ups makes my lats sore as hell the rest of the day/night. I think it is a great pre exhaust technique.
[quote]kakno wrote:
After using straps for a few months I get a good MMC even without straps. You can eat the cake and have it.[/quote]
I have experienced the same thing, particularly with pullups.
I also find that adding a bit of grip training in where necessary is pretty easy - and can be trained frequently like calves.
Pre-exhaust= performing an isolation exercise (one that you really feel effectively in the target muscle), followed by a “big movement” that incorporates the target muscle. The idea is to make the target muscle work harder on the “big lift.” Over time, this teaches your body to make better use of the target muscle during the big lift rather than just moving the weight from point A to point B using the most readily available muscles.
I recommend Kayak rows as the isolation move to get your lats going:
^First exercise. Do them light, for your own good lol.
Follow that with chins/pulldowns, maybe a row of some kind. I’m a huge believer in pre-exhausting though.
although i agree that using straps is ok and you can work your grip in other ways, i find that i rarely see someone activate their lats correctly while using a weight that they can’t grip without straps. everyone says that their lats are stronger than their grip but in my humble opinion, a lot of them ar kidding themselves and would be better off (at least at first) using a weight that allows good form with out straps first.
sweet video, def have to try this out…just makes sense really. its funny i read this in another thread but mmc is easier done when someone touches your muscle during contraction to make that connection, the hard part is finding a random stranger to touch you at the gym. so umm i know we dont know eachother but could you touch my butt im doing glute ham raises haha
Hammer Strength Front Pulldown works the lats damn good
[quote]CircaThursday wrote:
Hammer Strength Front Pulldown works the lats damn good[/quote]
That’s weird. I could have sworn the HS machine at my gym as the levers more out in front as opposed to directly above. Having them in front a bit turns it into a hybrid pulldown/row which I don’t prefer.
What kind of movements works the lower fibers of the lats the most? Angle of pull, (pulldown vs. row), Grips and grip width etc. And where does pullover hit the most?
[quote]Wezz wrote:
What kind of movements works the lower fibers of the lats the most? Angle of pull, (pulldown vs. row), Grips and grip width etc. And where does pullover hit the most?[/quote]
If you want more of a lower lat focus I would try underhand grips on rows and pulldowns. From personal experience, I found seated cable rows using a medium-width neutral grip handle very effective for the lower lats.
The primary movers in the pullover include the upper lats and lat dorsi, rear delts, triceps and a bit of chest. The pullover is a great exercise to start or finish a back session with, as it really always you to focus on the stretch and contraction of the lats, especially if using a machine pullover, as it provides resistance throughout the movement (vs. dumbell or BB).
[quote]Wezz wrote:
What kind of movements works the lower fibers of the lats the most? Angle of pull, (pulldown vs. row), Grips and grip width etc. And where does pullover hit the most?[/quote]
Try underhand rows, HS low row, and a low pulley cable row with a pause at the top.
I’m going to try do Pullups in between sets for as many consecutive days as I can handle. Neutral grip though because its easiest on my shoulders and I feel them most in my lats. Will see how this goes.