Big Guys... Horrid Lifting

[Professor_X]

[quote]NNNNate wrote:
BIGRAGOO and Prof,

I think that’s probably the issue. I have never come in contact with a professional. And no one on this thread defined what “big” was and certainly never said “big” was defined only as professional bodybuilders. I thought we were talking about the biggest people in our respective gyms . . . mine are not professional.
And of course I ask what their leg routine is. Obviously they could be walking into the gym when I’m not there.
As far as me living in some backwoods dumbass part of the country . . . heh heh I think Umass Amherst would qualify. In fact, I’ve rarely trained in the gym near anyone who was 25+, let alone someone that old and “big”. All the big guys I’ve seen are young so that probably skews my perception. If you’re training in gyms with professional bodybuilders, good for you. I suspect most people cannot say the same and therefore should err towards my point of view of ignoring other gymgoers.
And BIGRAGOO, I can’t believe you said my perception “has been clouded by a rare population of mirror muscle freaks.” Rare?! These people are the rule unless you’re training somewhere special.
[/quote]

I wasn’t really speaking of just pros even though I have known two or three of them who compete in NPC. Most of the people I consider “big” are guys walking around with muscular arms damn near 20" with huge backs and big quads. “Big” to me is NOT some guy barely breaking 200lbs who just does curls and the bench press. I understand size is relative, but you clearly need to get out more.

I especially pay attention to guys who are older (as in their late 30’s and 40’s) who are still lifting regularly. Those are the people I generally make an effort to speak to when I walk into a new gym and those are who I usually end up hanging around. I swear, there is no way I would be this heavy had I not listened to other people…including the ones who disagreed with top strength coaches or who didn’t read shit other than the numbers on plates.

Yes, the majority of new people hitting the gyms lately might be complete dumbasses, but if that is ALL you see, maybe you need to change gyms.

[Professor_X]

[quote]danmaftei wrote:
I’m just going to jump in and say I wasn’t criticizing the big guys for being stupid, I was simply wondering how they got so big, when almost everything I’ve read on this site has said that doing cheat curls and half squats and no deadlifts etc. etc. will get you nowhere.

Just like to point that out… I’m a small guy myself, anyong more than 200 lbs who isn’t fat is a God to me.[/quote]

I don’t do deadlifts. I think they are a great exercise…just overhyped. I like the T-bar row better for back. I may add them in later, but I haven’t done them in a long time.

[harris447]

[quote]danmaftei wrote:
I’m just going to jump in and say I wasn’t criticizing the big guys for being stupid, I was simply wondering how they got so big, when almost everything I’ve read on this site has said that doing cheat curls and half squats and no deadlifts etc. etc. will get you nowhere.

Just like to point that out… I’m a small guy myself, anyong more than 200 lbs who isn’t fat is a God to me.[/quote]

A guy named Arnold Something-or-other used to do cheat curls like they were going out of style. He had okay arms.

I think an analogy is in order: I teach kids how to “beat” the SAT’s. For any given math problem, there are two or three ways to do it. The kids always want to know which one is the right way. I always tell 'em the exact same thing: the right way is the way that gets you the right answer in the shortest amount of time.

Period.

If the goal is muscles, then whatever gets you them in a reasonable amount of time IS the right way. If deadlifts don’t work for you, then then that’s right. If it’s all-compound lifts, done in a full-body workout that gets you jacked, then that is correct. If you get a great pump by stabbing a midget in the head, then find a little fucker and sharpen your knife.

[NateOrade]

My progress is excellent and I don’t feel moving gyms just to be around your definition of big guys is worth the effort. I do wish I worked with them, though.
I have no problem motivating myself and pushing my limits even though I have no role-models of this around me.

And, one more time: What is it with you and not reading the articles here?! Yes, you’re gigantic, but do you really feel they have nothing to offer you?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I understand size is relative, but you clearly need to get out more.

Yes, the majority of new people hitting the gyms lately might be complete dumbasses, but if that is ALL you see, maybe you need to change gyms.[/quote]

[sam747]

Prof X, do you think you could learn anything by reading the training articles on this site?

[system]

harris447 – nice post man!!

[Professor_X]

[quote]sam747 wrote:
Prof X, do you think you could learn anything by reading the training articles on this site?[/quote]

I am sure I could, if I felt that I needed help in my training. Do you think this is the only source for information that is valid?

[Professor_X]

[quote]NNNNate wrote:
And, one more time: What is it with you and not reading the articles here?! Yes, you’re gigantic, but do you really feel they have nothing to offer you?

[/quote]

My current goal is dieting down. Unless I plan to compete, I have built a solid amount of size so naturally I wouldn’t look for articles based on that. I know what works for me. It isn’t like I have been blindly wandering around the gym for ten years. If I see an article related to my current goal, I may read it. However, one thing you need to understand, is that you still need to find what works FOR YOU. You can read every article on this site and still not do what will make you grow the best or make the most progress. Much of that is still reliant on your worth ethic as well.

You seem to think that I made an oath not to read articles on this site. That isn’t the case. I know what my goals are. I know how to build size on my own frame. I am currently changing my short term goal so my interest is in areas that assist that goal.

[NateOrade]

Well it is a source for valid information. And if you get one good training idea from an article, isn’t it worth it?

Hey, here’s a deal. Read one of the articles here and I’ll go to the gym and ask one of the big guys for advice.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am sure I could, if I felt that I needed help in my training. Do you think this is the only source for information that is valid?[/quote]

[buffalokilla]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
sam747 wrote:
Prof X, do you think you could learn anything by reading the training articles on this site?

I am sure I could, if I felt that I needed help in my training. Do you think this is the only source for information that is valid?[/quote]

I’ll just try very hard not to point out the blatant hypocrisy here…

-Your biggest fan

[Professor_X]

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
Professor X wrote:
sam747 wrote:
Prof X, do you think you could learn anything by reading the training articles on this site?

I am sure I could, if I felt that I needed help in my training. Do you think this is the only source for information that is valid?

I’ll just try very hard not to point out the blatant hypocrisy here…
[/quote]

Please point it out.

[Professor_X]

[quote]NNNNate wrote:
Well it is a source for valid information. And if you get one good training idea from an article, isn’t it worth it?

Hey, here’s a deal. Read one of the articles here and I’ll go to the gym and ask one of the big guys for advice.

Professor X wrote:
I am sure I could, if I felt that I needed help in my training. Do you think this is the only source for information that is valid?

[/quote]

I have read articles from this site before. I just don’t follow them the way some of the other posters on this site seem to as far as quoting which author came up with which routine. You act as if I am new to this site. I am trying really hard to figure out why this matters to you at all.

[sasquatch]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
NNNNate wrote:
Well it is a source for valid information. And if you get one good training idea from an article, isn’t it worth it?

Hey, here’s a deal. Read one of the articles here and I’ll go to the gym and ask one of the big guys for advice.

Professor X wrote:
I am sure I could, if I felt that I needed help in my training. Do you think this is the only source for information that is valid?

I have read articles from this site before. I just don’t follow them the way some of the other posters on this site seem to as far as quoting which author came up with which routine. You act as if I am new to this site. I am trying really hard to figure out why this matters to you at all. [/quote]

I’ve learned a great deal since finding this site. Actually since I found the last Testosterone issue on a mag shelf some 2-3 yrs ago.
But what bothers me most is that people then regurgitate the info as gospel and assume anyone doing anything other than (x) is a fucking moron.
You can’t discount experience and you most certainly can’t discount results.
People respond differently to different protocol, and that should be accepted.
Isn’t it the same as the people who ‘follow’ one of Chad’s routines, but alter the days/reps/sets/exercises to suit themselves better? You take the tidbits you like and the stuff you don’t and you rearrange them to better suit your style or abilities or physiology. It’s a great baseline, but there exists so many different ways to achieve success.

[Professor_X]

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
I’ve learned a great deal since finding this site. Actually since I found the last Testosterone issue on a mag shelf some 2-3 yrs ago.
But what bothers me most is that people then regurgitate the info as gospel and assume anyone doing anything other than (x) is a fucking moron.
You can’t discount experience and you most certainly can’t discount results.
People respond differently to different protocol, and that should be accepted.
Isn’t it the same as the people who ‘follow’ one of Chad’s routines, but alter the days/reps/sets/exercises to suit themselves better? You take the tidbits you like and the stuff you don’t and you rearrange them to better suit your style or abilities or physiology. It’s a great baseline, but there exists so many different ways to achieve success.[/quote]

This is why I don’t understand why anyone would have an issue with the fact that I don’t read many of the articles on this site. If there were something I was looking for, I would look for it. I like my training the way it is and I am seeing results. I could see if I wasn’t making progress or if I was clueless, but I don’t think that is the case. This site is simply ONE resource. I truly hope that people aren’t ONLY coming here for everything they think they know. Most of the issues being brought up in different threads (like the many who seem to suddenly believe that you can get HUGE without getting relatively strong for that size) are mostly because too many seem to think that reading an article here makes you an expert.

We just had another thread started by someone who clearly thinks anyone who disagrees with T-Nation is “retarded”. I am very interested in how some people think others are making progress (often more than they are) if everyone else is retarded.

[sasquatch]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
I’ve learned a great deal since finding this site. Actually since I found the last Testosterone issue on a mag shelf some 2-3 yrs ago.
But what bothers me most is that people then regurgitate the info as gospel and assume anyone doing anything other than (x) is a fucking moron.
You can’t discount experience and you most certainly can’t discount results.
People respond differently to different protocol, and that should be accepted.
Isn’t it the same as the people who ‘follow’ one of Chad’s routines, but alter the days/reps/sets/exercises to suit themselves better? You take the tidbits you like and the stuff you don’t and you rearrange them to better suit your style or abilities or physiology. It’s a great baseline, but there exists so many different ways to achieve success.

This is why I don’t understand why anyone would have an issue with the fact that I don’t read many of the articles on this site. If there were something I was looking for, I would look for it. I like my training the way it is and I am seeing results. I could see if I wasn’t making progress or if I was clueless, but I don’t think that is the case. This site is simply ONE resource. I truly hope that people aren’t ONLY coming here for everything they think they know. Most of the issues being brought up in different threads (like the many who seem to suddenly believe that you can get HUGE without getting relatively strong for that size) are mostly because too many seem to think that reading an article here makes you an expert.

We just had another thread started by someone who clearly thinks anyone who disagrees with T-Nation is “retarded”. I am very interested in how some people think others are making progress (often more than they are) if everyone else is retarded.[/quote]

Funny
I just responded to that guy before reading this.

[buffalokilla]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
buffalokilla wrote:
Professor X wrote:
sam747 wrote:
Prof X, do you think you could learn anything by reading the training articles on this site?

I am sure I could, if I felt that I needed help in my training. Do you think this is the only source for information that is valid?

I’ll just try very hard not to point out the blatant hypocrisy here…

Please point it out.
[/quote]

sigh … well, to begin with, many of the authors here are bigger/stronger/leaner than the big guy in most gyms and have trained many people to be bigger/stronger/leaner than the big guy in near every gym. Not looking to the authors is worse than not looking to the big guy, as they’ve done it better for more people. I’d trust them over the 250lbs guy doing the two-man trampoline press over in the bench area. I’m obviously not saying that all big guys are dumb and weak, I addressed the latter in Xen’s thread - but you can get big by working hard at anything and eating up to it.

Some big guys have gotten there safely and effectively - some haven’t. To someone who isn’t pretty well educated already, it can be tough to weed out the good advice from the bad. You seem to have a reasonable amount of education on the subject, enough to realize if someone’s an idiot anyway, but look at how many people on the forums here look like morons to you. Would you trust them to listen and know what may not be worth assimilating?

You also encourage looking at many sources for training info, but don’t really go about looking for ideas from the very intelligent people here that could be much better than what the big guy knows. I know you said you may look for something if it meets a particular goal - but why not browse around for information that may be better than what you already know? Would you not read Supertraining or The Science and Practice of Strength Training because your arms are already big enough to you?

Yes, I realize that there are many other resources out there that are just as good and often better than T-Nation. There are a lot of very strong articles written here, though - much stronger than I’ve read on most other sites, like Bodybuilding dot com, Clarence Bass’s site, Exrx.net, etc. A lot more wheat than chaff.

In case anyone reading this is interested, the archives of the Supertraining Yahoo group is one of the best training resources in the world - it’s a huge compilation, but worth the time it takes to read through it.

-Dan

[beefcakemdphd]

Latest supercharged computer - $5000
High speed internet - $50
5 pound bottle of whey protein - $40
Flaming beanie - $14
T-Nation - priceless
Listening to some moron that quarter squats half bodyweight and mistakes gyno for pecs regurgitate the latest article in T-Nation - WORTHLESS

BEEF

[Professor_X]

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
sigh … well, to begin with, many of the authors here are bigger/stronger/leaner than the big guy in most gyms and have trained many people to be bigger/stronger/leaner than the big guy in near every gym. [/quote]

And your point is? I am also bigger than most people in many gyms and my training has allowed me to put on a great deal of size. Again, if I am seeing the results I like and results that are better than average, why do I need to change that? Just to do what everyone else is doing?

[quote]
You also encourage looking at many sources for training info, but don’t really go about looking for ideas from the very intelligent people here that could be much better than what the big guy knows. I know you said you may look for something if it meets a particular goal - but why not browse around for information that may be better than what you already know? Would you not read Supertraining or The Science and Practice of Strength Training because your arms are already big enough to you?

-Dan [/quote]

I do encourage people to go to many sources for info. That INCLUDES not thinking that this one site is all there is to know about weight lifting. Why would I need to read what one trainer believes when I know what works for myself? I’m not a beginner and have spent most of my life reading up on these topics before I ever came to this site. I have also spent years finding out what my body responds to the best. Is this site a great resource? Yes, it is. Does this mean everyone needs to read what these authors believe or that they are at a disadvantage if they don’t? Of course not.

[danmaftei]

So now, if we’re done talking about Professor X’s training habits, the question I have is this:

Do you guys believe that there are some basic fundementals that almost everyone could benefit from? Say, doing full squats instead of half squats often puts on more form? Or doing big compound movements like chins are better for biceps than curls?

I definitely agree and disagree with a lot of comments here, but I do want to know from Prof X, do you believe in the science behind weightlifting? If scientifically lifting fast to recruit more high-treshold MUs (or whatever they’re called, the thing in the 10 x 3 Principles article by CW) gives you more growth than lifting very slowly, would you call BS on someone who said that it’s better to lift fast?

[Faraz421]

I havent read every post, but back to the original guy criticizing the ‘big guy’ who did chinups and then lat pull downs that barely came down. Theres alot you may not know, especially if you never cared to ask.

There is a possibility, im guessing this wasnt the case, but he could have been doing partial reps, emphasizes a particular part of his ROM, there is a friggin variety of things he could have been doing. Yeah, im shocked walking in to a college gym and never seeing any big guys doing squats, but im not there all day, nor do i know their routines and goals, nor should it matter to me — except that i get my squat rack.

(p.s., im not really an advocate of partial reps or anything, but to each his own)