We have a winner!!
[quote]confusion wrote:
Are you on the juice? These are some common side effects.[/quote]
[quote]Ramo wrote:
I don’t know that I’d call what I’m going through a ‘healthy change in body composition’…My gains haven’t been astronomical, but I am pushing 240 at 5’10, and that’s bigger than I’ve ever been before. I didn’t get into powerlifting to be healthier, and I’d never argue that having less bodyfat wouldn’t be healthier. It would.
But I know some bigger lifters have dealt with issues like mine and I’m hoping for some insight from them. [/quote]
OK, somehow I missed the 5’10 part. Everything considered, I can’t say. Hopefully somebody who’s had some experience with something similar will see this. It could be like the guy above says, as simple as just not being aerobically fit.
the problem probably is your blood pressure. As you gain lean tissue, and fat, blood vessels inside that new tissue have to form also. With more volume of tissue to provide nutrients for, your blood pressure will rise to accomadate the increased nutrient need. It takes considerably longer for your vascular system to catch up and become more efficient at delivering nutrients to that new tissue. When i gain size my blood pressure does go up, but eventually will level out. i would wake up with my heart pounding in my head, or before i would lay down to sleep, i could hear my increased heart rate.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Ramo wrote:
Well…I’ve put on about 25 lbs in the last 4 months or so. Obviously my mobility is affected; I don’t think there’s any way around that in the short term. Also, I’m running out of breath easier. Again, gaining size at that rate, hard to avoid. Those are the kinds of things I meant.
But what concerns me, (and what I didn’t necessarily expect), is shortness of breath when at rest (having to suck for air) and shitty sleep. These in particular I could do without.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but 25lbs in four months isn’t an astronomical gain. Like 6 1/4lbs a month or roughly 1 1/2 a week. It’s significant, but I am unconvinced that this by itself is the explanation for shortness of breath and a general lack of feeling well. Maybe an initial impact on sleep to some degree.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not claiming any eminently qualified point of view here and maybe in your case for reasons none of us knows it is indeed the cause, but I’ve known who people who gained that much in half the time and never felt better in their lives.
With nothing else to go on I’m just saying it seems odd that a normally healthy change in body composition would bring such seemingly unhealty results.
I don’t know that I’d call what I’m going through a ‘healthy change in body composition’…My gains haven’t been astronomical, but I am pushing 240 at 5’10, and that’s bigger than I’ve ever been before. I didn’t get into powerlifting to be healthier, and I’d never argue that having less bodyfat wouldn’t be healthier. It would.
But I know some bigger lifters have dealt with issues like mine and I’m hoping for some insight from them. [/quote]
I’m really trying to digest the “didn’t get into powerlifting to be healthier” thingy. What did you get into it for? Are you elite? Are you going for records? Girls?
I mean, if not for health, then how important is a stronger deadlift?
Anyone can gain weight and lift more weight. But I hate to tell you that that means little if it kills you.
All this advice is great. However,
GO SEE A DOCTOR. He in turn may send you to a sleep disorder specialist.Just in case you missed it the first time,GO SEE A DOCTOR.
That’s the best advice any of us can give you.
[quote]sasquatch wrote:
I’m really trying to digest the “didn’t get into powerlifting to be healthier” thingy. What did you get into it for? Are you elite? Are you going for records? Girls?
I mean, if not for health, then how important is a stronger deadlift?
Anyone can gain weight and lift more weight. But I hate to tell you that that means little if it kills you.
[/quote]
Let me clarify. I’m not trying to become unhealthy; but for me the appeal of the sport doesn’t lie in its potential to enhance my health. That’s all I mean.
As for anyone being able to gain weight and lift more weight, maybe that’s true in the beginning. But you make it sound like becoming very strong is easy. I am not at an elite total yet. I’m not even at a Class I total, (which at 242 is 1554 I believe) but I’m going to get there by the end of next year. I don’t use powerlifting gear. From where I started, a raw total of 1554 is hard to reach. Even attaining my measly current level of strength has not been ‘easy’.
I powerlift because I like it. I am putting on size because it is making me stronger. It’s been worth it, but it hasn’t been totally smooth.
I understand and appreciate the common message of getting my blood pressure checked and keeping it monitored. I will do that.
I don’t want to compromise my health, but lifting is important to me and it would take a lot to keep me from pouring myself into it. Part of that for me is doing what I need to do to get and keep my LBM up.
Thanks to everyone who has posted here. Any other ideas from big lifters would be great.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
But what concerns me, (and what I didn’t necessarily expect), is shortness of breath when at rest (having to suck for air) and shitty sleep. These in particular I could do without.
[/quote]
I’m really groping in the dark here, but could you be developing asthma maybe for some reason? Are you taking anything like ephedrine/caffeine and maybe too much or too late in the day or both? What about meaty meals too close to bedtime? You sound like you’re lucid enough to have considered these things if any applied, but I’m just throwing around ideas.
There are exceptions to just about every rule medicine has ever come up with, but I just can’t get myself to believe something this pronounced is the result of a 25 pound gain in 2 months even if it were less lean than you’re saying. Maybe… I dunno.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
apayne wrote:
Well, I can’t say don’t go see a doctor but I know what he’s gonna say…that’s right, lose some weight! If you’ve put on the weight pretty quickly it will take some adjusting to. You’re stomach might be constantly bloated as well from eating a lot and for me that makes my whole midsection tight. The best you can do would be to keep a very strict routine for a while and change little bits at a time to see how it affects you.
You’re right man, a lot of it does seem to be from being full all the time, like my stomach is pushing up into my chest and making it hard to breathe.
[/quote]
Yeah, don’t sweat it bro, it’ll calm down eventually. Just gonna have to deal with it for a while. Try running around a rugby field with a lot of new weight, now that sucks!
The poor sleep is probably just a result of your body/metabolism working overtime. I know when I used MAG-10 I had horrible sleep and night sweats and the guys here said that was pretty standard. Even without any prohormones though I’ve noticed if I am concentrating on bulking it upsets my sleep for a while. Small price to pay IMO!
[quote]Ramo wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
I’m really trying to digest the “didn’t get into powerlifting to be healthier” thingy. What did you get into it for? Are you elite? Are you going for records? Girls?
I mean, if not for health, then how important is a stronger deadlift?
Anyone can gain weight and lift more weight. But I hate to tell you that that means little if it kills you.
Let me clarify. I’m not trying to become unhealthy; but for me the appeal of the sport doesn’t lie in its potential to enhance my health. That’s all I mean.
As for anyone being able to gain weight and lift more weight, maybe that’s true in the beginning. But you make it sound like becoming very strong is easy. I am not at an elite total yet. I’m not even at a Class I total, (which at 242 is 1554 I believe) but I’m going to get there by the end of next year. I don’t use powerlifting gear. From where I started, a raw total of 1554 is hard to reach. Even attaining my measly current level of strength has not been ‘easy’.
I powerlift because I like it. I am putting on size because it is making me stronger. It’s been worth it, but it hasn’t been totally smooth.
I understand and appreciate the common message of getting my blood pressure checked and keeping it monitored. I will do that.
I don’t want to compromise my health, but lifting is important to me and it would take a lot to keep me from pouring myself into it. Part of that for me is doing what I need to do to get and keep my LBM up.
Thanks to everyone who has posted here. Any other ideas from big lifters would be great. [/quote]
I’m not trying to minimize it at all. If you lift hard and eat a lot–enough to gain weight, chances are you’ll get stronger. My inference being–is that important enough to risk your health?
How can lifting be more important than health? Before I would have posted this I would have seen a Dr. You are complaining of lack of breath and sleep–in my eyes two quite serious complaints. I appreciate your goals and desire, but sometimes that overshadows common sense.
I just competed in a powerlifting meet and bulked to almost 310. This from 275 in aprox. 6 mos. My lifts went up–not to elite status at all–but when chasing my kids in the yard caused me discomfort I had to decide what I wanted. 50-60 extra pounds on my lifting total or 25-35lbs on my frame.
Easy one for me. Please see a doc if these two issues continue. By the way–I’m bigger to start, but none of these symptoms accompianied my weight gain.
I’ve noticed a few of the symptoms you’re experiencing myself. I’m in the middle of a successful bulk right now. I’m not sleeping real well, I think it has to do with the metabolism/digestive system working overtime. I also feel pretty grumpy / shitty in the morning due to training hard and poor sleep quality. Besides those the only other thing thats bothered me is getting use to having a lot of muscle =). Lay on your arm wrong and it will fall right to sleep. Or sit/sleep wrong and your muscles will get sore.
So you have a breathing problem. Your solution to the problem is to ask the advice of people who are large. Why? Because large people are smarter? Large people are better at medicine? Obviously no. If you thought you had a medical problem you would never go to large people for help, you would go to a doctor.
So obviously you must be sure you don’t have a problem. So why are you even asking? Any large people on this site probably don’t have medical problems, so their answers are almost guaranteed to affirm your assumption that everything is ok. If you are looking for affirmation and not real help, this is the place to get it.
But if you do have a real problem and it has to do with being large, and since the large people here will tell you that you are ok, then by following that advice you are fucked.
But how do you even know that your problem has anything to do with being large? For example, how do you know you just don’t have an infection in the heart wall? (Saw it on Marcus Welby.) How do you know you don’t need some antibiotics? Why would large people be good at figuring this out?
I am not somebody who runs to the doctor for every little thing. I would guess that I go to the doctor less than just about everybody here. But if I had to “suck air” I would run to the doctor.
So go to the doctor and let him tell you that you are ok. Then you can come back here and tell me that I am an asshole. And next time a large person has trouble breathing you can tell them that there is nothing to worry about and they should just take more zinc.
[quote]onewall wrote:
And next time a large person has trouble breathing you can tell them that there is nothing to worry about and they should just take more zinc.
[/quote]
Lol.
I gotcha.
See a doctor, explain what your goals are, if the Doc does not understand your goals, then seek a second opinion.
The heart is a muscle, it needs to be worked and if the protocol of the workout does not get the heart going then it needs some attention. For me I was at my heaviest at 230 lbs (5’ 8"), I was sluggish going up the stairs and short of breath now and then, sleep was also affected. I decided to add some HIIT cardio, since I workout at home I did this;
10 pushups, 10 crunches and a stair sprint (I workout in my basement) then repeat this 10 times, no rest between the exercises or “supersets”. I did this on my off days and I did not change my routine for the weights. within about 2 weeks or 6 sessions I went down to 222 lbs. I believe a lot was gas (bloated) and fluids, I lost fat as well, nothing significant IMO for the fat. My breathing improved immensly and another byproduct of this was that my strength improved (better heart health). I am now back to 225 lbs, been steady at this for the last 3 weeks, zero cardio. I have since changed my routine to include supersets for most exercises so that gets my cardio in as well. When I return to a bulk routine, I will add a day or 2 if necessary to ensure my heart is prepped for the heavy lifting. In other words I will do cardio when it warrants it.
Just a thought but I believe aerobic type cardio would be counter productive to maintaining muscle IMO.
Have ya seen a Doc yet? Everyone who have you this advice is 100% wrong. I’ve been in weight gaining phases quite a bit but I’ve never had the problems your experiencing. Go see a doctor,also take a look at exactly what foods your looking to bulk with. Weight gain at the expense of overall health isn’t a good idea.
The gpp recommendations are very good. So are the ones which tell you to seek medical advice.
My thoughts are that it COULD be “mechanical” in nature.
Heavy lifting as we all know makes you rock-solid all over. That carryover is not always positive or desired.
Your ability to expand the ribcage may be inhibited by the sheer strength and resistance of your increased musculature.
Your pecs, lats, serratus, entire abdominal structure etc. has become stronger and probaby less pliable.
If it were me, I’d stretch the ribcage, lats, abs etc. and see if you can free up your chest expansion in oreder to increase your ability to breathe deeply/easier.
This may seem “out there” but it’s got some logic behind it.
[quote]derek wrote:
The gpp recommendations are very good. So are the ones which tell you to seek medical advice.
My thoughts are that it COULD be “mechanical” in nature.
Heavy lifting as we all know makes you rock-solid all over. That carryover is not always positive or desired.
Your ability to expand the ribcage may be inhibited by the sheer strength and resistance of your increased musculature.
Your pecs, lats, serratus, entire abdominal structure etc. has become stronger and probaby less pliable.
If it were me, I’d stretch the ribcage, lats, abs etc. and see if you can free up your chest expansion in oreder to increase your ability to breathe deeply/easier.
This may seem “out there” but it’s got some logic behind it.[/quote]
How? Breathing pullovers? Hanging from a chinning bar?
It’s an interesting idea…I’ve never heard it before. Thanks.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
How? Breathing pullovers? Hanging from a chinning bar?
It’s an interesting idea…I’ve never heard it before. Thanks.[/quote]
Yes, pullovers with a dumbbell and a barbell (really a bottom position hold). DEEP dip-unit stretches, deep dumbbell flye holds, Rader chest pulls which you grab a rack upright or doorframe with both hands about chest-height, drop your upper body between your arms so your biceps touch your ears as you push your hips backward, this’ll stretch your lats. You can use straps and hang from a chin-up bar.
Also, for your abs, you can do “upward dog” or “cobra” or whatever the hell those yoga people call it and use the swiss ball by arching over it. You may want to achor your feet under dumbbells for this.
You could do a pullover stretch on the ball, again, anchor you feet for this
[quote]anderson1357 wrote:
I’ve noticed a few of the symptoms you’re experiencing myself. I’m in the middle of a successful bulk right now. I’m not sleeping real well, I think it has to do with the metabolism/digestive system working overtime. I also feel pretty grumpy / shitty in the morning due to training hard and poor sleep quality. Besides those the only other thing thats bothered me is getting use to having a lot of muscle =). Lay on your arm wrong and it will fall right to sleep. Or sit/sleep wrong and your muscles will get sore.[/quote]
Intersting that you say this, I only started to experience my arm falling asleep during sleep when I started adding quality mass.
[quote]derek wrote:
Ramo wrote:
How? Breathing pullovers? Hanging from a chinning bar?
It’s an interesting idea…I’ve never heard it before. Thanks.
Yes, pullovers with a dumbbell and a barbell (really a bottom position hold). DEEP dip-unit stretches, deep dumbbell flye holds, Rader chest pulls which you grab a rack upright or doorframe with both hands about chest-height, drop your upper body between your arms so your biceps touch your ears as you push your hips backward, this’ll stretch your lats. You can use straps and hang from a chin-up bar.
Also, for your abs, you can do “upward dog” or “cobra” or whatever the hell those yoga people call it and use the swiss ball by arching over it. You may want to achor your feet under dumbbells for this.
You could do a pullover stretch on the ball, again, anchor you feet for this [/quote]
Thanks. I’ve read some of that stuff by Peary Rader and had pretty much forgotten about it. I’ll do some of it.
Like you said, more GPP work is called for. I’ve blown up but I’ve let my GPP slide, and it’s not where it needs to be at all.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
Like you said, more GPP work is called for. I’ve blown up but I’ve let my GPP slide, and it’s not where it needs to be at all. [/quote]
Sled dragging and farmers walks will do it. 2 to 3 times per week and not very heavy, just several 100 foot walks should suffice.