So is Biden. So again, hmmmmmm…
So what was the better option? Go back on the trump teams negotiation with the taliban, likely resulting in attacks from the taliban and ISIS-K, and keep or up the troop presence in a drawn out withdrawl (as promised by the last 3 presidents) that saw every bit of territory vacated by american troops immediatley taken over by taliban rule?
I mean really. How do you withdraw from a country where the enemy is the majority and has as much or more fight in them than when we started the war 20 years ago? The afghan security forces, as we saw, would provide no time or territorial buffer. the enemy would have been at the gates the whole damn time.
this is starting to seem like we are holding Biden to an impossibly high standard. Perfect is the enemy of good. Anything less than perfect results in tragedy here, and tragedy has and will occur- no argument. But are there any perfect options? Or is it better to just have the good option of getting out NOW, finally, and dealing with the tragedy and being through with it?
What’s the point? The decision to leave was made under Trump. He also ignored the advice of generals. And I don’t hold it against Trump btw. The entire plan to withdraw, from Trump to Biden, probably could have been better but let’s not imagine that better means painless.
But Trump was in the process of actually getting us out. There were only 2500 troops in Afghanistan when he left office.
In at totally fucked up manner, getting troops killed and leaving behind Americans and Afghanistan allies.
It seems they are leaving and have been leaving. I mean, we still have troops there so how have they been left behind?
1 Like
Somehow using an airport 40 miles away is better than using one that’s minutes away? The people still need to get out of Kabul either way however, defending a 40 mile stretch that they would then need to travel seems the more difficult option.
We DID go back on the terms. We were supposed to be out May 1st, but Biden changed the terms. He is president. He can do that.
Yes, trump was negotiating a US withdrawl with the taliban and i have no doubt he would have pulled out had he won a second term. And it would have almost certainly been a messy affair. And i honestly would likely be saying the same thing: I don’t see how we could have accomplished a safe, quick, humane withdrawl in a country whose majority supports the enemy and is just as strong as the day we invaded. Any withdrawl was going to be messy and be a tragedy for many.
In regards to Bagram, do you think that having 2 airport targets for ISIS-K would have resulted in less attacks/casualties during a withdrawl and crush of people trying to get on a plane?
It was the better option according the military experts, yes.
For what reasons? If it was because of things that have not occured at Kabul airport (like planes getting hit with ground fire/rockets, taliban fighters with a coordinated attack overruning forces, etc) then its kind of moot (though its a bad look to overrule military counsel to score political points).
the big benefit for keeping Bagram, from what i can tell, would have been 2 points of exit allowing us to evacuate more people more quickly- which lessens total exposure to attack. But it also means another target for attack, and the entry gates at either airport are soft, easy targets for suicide bombers.
Yes, haven’t you spoken to the slew of socialist youths? Come down here and plenty of dumbass students (I’ve lost the patience to be civil) will tell you America is an imperialist, systemically racist state hell bent on oppressing various demographics! You guys, along with Aus have a horrendous rape culture!
Countries like Saudi can have a REAL rape culture though because that’s their culture! Who are you to question them? What are you? A racist!!
I’m thought of as an extremist in Aus because I support the right to protest… Because I support the prospect of people voicing their ideologies even if it goes against “we need zero cases in the community”.
No one seems to recognise how disconnected from the world we are. During lockdown a citizen literally can’t apply for a gun license as gun safety courses are shut down. I remember when I told you Vic stopped approving gun licenses, you said “that’s a sign they’re becoming a totalitarian state”… I dismissed you, I… Was… Wrong…
They started issuing them again, but we’ve spend some 220 days out of the past year and a bit in hard lockdown. Longest stretch without restrictions equitable to martial law in place has been 62 days…
What’s worse… The people here support this blatant authoritarianism. Now I have to leave and start anew because I have no interest living in a police state. It pisses me right off
The Afghanistan debacle is even more of a clusterfuck than I thought it was going to be. Aside from the stranded citizens, the oppressive rule it appears the Taliban/ISIS conflict that has been going on for a while is set to cover ground in Afghanistan… I assume there will be quite a few casualties pertaining to innocent civilians 
I’m not sure as to why we would blame a particular president regarding this issue. I read over how Trump handled pulling troops out of northern Syria, the ramifications associated.
The Afghanistanian situation (I’ve been reading into it quite a bit, trying to get educated) to me seems like it was a MASSIVE fuck up right from the get go. I wonder if it would have even been possible to orchestrate pulling out without civilian casualties?
I happen to believe both Donald Trump and Joe Biden are suffering from some undiagnosed neurodegenerative disease associated with old age. Biden is obviously farther along than Trump is… But I think both aren’t all there.
My grandma who lives with us recently fell and broke her hip… As a double whammy she’s also received a diagnosis of Alzheimer’s… She reminds me of the way Joe Biden speaks sometimes…
Super depressing watching her deteriorate like this…
And @zecarlo
CG - YOU ASKED SOUrce of Biden ignoring generals. WSJ is reputable enough, and Psaki had confirmed Biden did so. Yet he lied to George S and said he didn’t hear that advice.
Why all the heat on Biden?
He is the C in C, his action of immediate withdrawal with next to no military to ensure safe passage has left sophisticated weapons worth untold billions, particularly if China or Russia get their hands on, which will be used against the West and the Afghans, our trust to other nations has now likely taken its biggest hit ever, and because monsters attack when they perceive weakness, count on more attacks.
I can’t explain this any simpler, so if you want to once again say “well trump, bush, jcs, my mama” have fun.
Semantics, but he didnt ignore them. He didnt agree and went against their advice. And im not disputing it (i appreciate the links), im trying to discuss and understand why he was given that advice, and why he would have gone against it.
I wish people would at least TRY to read what other people write…instead of what they THINK they wrote (myself included).
1 Like
It was? No, they may have said it was more defensible but they didn’t account for the trip to get there. In other words, the people might be safer, provided they made it there.
Again. The generals wanted to stay in Afghanistan. If you have an issue with Biden not taking that advice then you have an issue with Trump as well.
The Afghan army handed those weapons over.
If we stayed in Afghanistan it wouldn’t change the fact it was a farce. It wouldn’t change the fact the Afghan army we were training and giving weapons to was a joke. But if you want to fixate on Biden and his mistake vs 20 years of mistakes, then I would ask you why?
I’m sure they never factored that in at all, unlike the great military genius Zecarlo. I mean, they knew their job was to get everyone out, but they never thought about how they were going to get people to the airport.