BTW, while I’m sure we could go back and forth on this, it’s not my intention to grill you or put your feet to the fire. So I’ll let you have the last word here (if you want it). I will answer any questions you might have though.
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
How about that flaming sword guarding the tree of eternal life “from every way”? How come THAT hasnt been found now that we can see 100% of the earth?[/quote]
The flaming sword, since I presume it was a divine sword made from God, vanished after it was no longer necessary. I presume the Garden of Eden took a while to decay naturally. When it did, God most likely removed it or destroyed it.
Ya ya I know…how convenient.
Thing is I can say that about may things you believe.[/quote]
In Revelation it says that the tree of life is in heaven somehow moved from the garden of Eden so no more need of a flaming sword to protect it.
[quote]Pangloss wrote:
BTW, while I’m sure we could go back and forth on this, it’s not my intention to grill you or put your feet to the fire. So I’ll let you have the last word here (if you want it). I will answer any questions you might have though. [/quote]
#1 It is Gods prerogative to give or take away life at his own will since life belongs to him and he is life.
#2 The amorites sent an army to destroy the gibeonites whom israel was protecting.
#3 Why should I doubt joshua when the long day and the hailstones destroyed more of the army than what was killed by the sword.
#4 From genesis 15 we can tell that the amorites by this time have become utterly sinful sacrificing their children into the hands of baal letting them be burned alive and other cruel evil.
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
[quote]Pangloss wrote:
BTW, while I’m sure we could go back and forth on this, it’s not my intention to grill you or put your feet to the fire. So I’ll let you have the last word here (if you want it). I will answer any questions you might have though. [/quote]
#1 It is Gods prerogative to give or take away life at his own will since life belongs to him and he is life.
#2 The amorites sent an army to destroy the gibeonites whom israel was protecting.
#3 Why should I doubt joshua when the long day and the hailstones destroyed more of the army than what was killed by the sword.
#4 From genesis 15 we can tell that the amorites by this time have become utterly sinful sacrificing their children into the hands of baal letting them be burned alive and other cruel evil.[/quote]
So then, you would presumably pick 2, then, right?
[quote]forbes wrote:
God lawfully has the right to execute judgment upon anyone. The Bible says that all people have sinned against God and are under his righteous judgment. Therefore, their execution is not an arbitrary killing nor is it murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of life. Killing is the lawful taking of life. For example, we can lawfully take a life in defense of our selves, our families, our nations, etc.
When God authorizes the nation of Israel to wipe out a people, it is a lawful execution due to their rebellion and sin against God. Furthermore, such an extermination can be seen to be merciful by delivering the young into the hands of the Lord and possibly saving their souls by not giving them time to become “utterly sinful”.2 Additionally, further generations that would have arisen from the perverse culture, are likewise prevented from coming into existence and spreading their sin.[/quote]
I’ve read enough.
This UTTER BULLSHIT is exactly the reason we need to keep a firm check on the retard “Sky Wizard” people. This is why we need to keep religious beliefs out of our government, out of our schools, and out of our workplaces.
You, sir, for believing that the murder of one human being at the hands of another is permissible because the killers Magic-Man-Up-In-The-Sky said it was ok, are a fool, a monster, and a threat to humanity.
Anyone who says its ok for one person to kill another “because God said so” is a very dangerous threat to the rest of us and needs a very close watch put on them.
Lest they decide their god has commanded them to kill me, or you, or your family.
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
How about that flaming sword guarding the tree of eternal life “from every way”? How come THAT hasnt been found now that we can see 100% of the earth?[/quote]
The flaming sword, since I presume it was a divine sword made from God, vanished after it was no longer necessary. I presume the Garden of Eden took a while to decay naturally. When it did, God most likely removed it or destroyed it.
Ya ya I know…how convenient.
Thing is I can say that about may things you believe.[/quote]
In Revelation it says that the tree of life is in heaven somehow moved from the garden of Eden so no more need of a flaming sword to protect it.[/quote]
Right. The impossible magic thing was poofed away by sky wizard, so you can make the same fucking retarded claim despite no shred of evidence.
You’re an idiot, seriously.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
God lawfully has the right to execute judgment upon anyone. The Bible says that all people have sinned against God and are under his righteous judgment. Therefore, their execution is not an arbitrary killing nor is it murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of life. Killing is the lawful taking of life. For example, we can lawfully take a life in defense of our selves, our families, our nations, etc.
When God authorizes the nation of Israel to wipe out a people, it is a lawful execution due to their rebellion and sin against God. Furthermore, such an extermination can be seen to be merciful by delivering the young into the hands of the Lord and possibly saving their souls by not giving them time to become “utterly sinful”.2 Additionally, further generations that would have arisen from the perverse culture, are likewise prevented from coming into existence and spreading their sin.[/quote]
I’ve read enough.
This UTTER BULLSHIT is exactly the reason we need to keep a firm check on the retard “Sky Wizard” people. This is why we need to keep religious beliefs out of our government, out of our schools, and out of our workplaces.
You, sir, for believing that the murder of one human being at the hands of another is permissible because the killers Magic-Man-Up-In-The-Sky said it was ok, are a fool, a monster, and a threat to humanity.[/quote]
Someone’s angry…
Look, my opinion was asked and I gave it. Obviously if something goes against your beliefs it must be wrong.
God did order the killing of those people. Rest assured God will not ask for such a brutal slaughter ever again from his people, for the last judgment and punishment of the wicked will be his and no one elses.
I will never kill an innocent child/adult/animal. That is not in God’s will.
[quote]forbes wrote:
God did order the killing of those people. Rest assured God will not ask for such a brutal slaughter ever again from his people, for the last judgment and punishment of the wicked will be his and no one elses.
I will never kill an innocent child/adult/animal. That is not in God’s will.[/quote]
This is some twisted shit right here… seriously fucking twisted.
And, this is why I despise religion in every from.
I’m confident that you are only replying to the challenge this way because you were actually challenged… and that in that your instinct (rational, retrospective) would be to hope that the soldier would die defending the child.
I am also unfortunately confident that in the heat of battle, most people would fall upon their basic drives of fear of death and assume that they were doing the “lord’s” work… fucking sick.
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
God lawfully has the right to execute judgment upon anyone. The Bible says that all people have sinned against God and are under his righteous judgment. Therefore, their execution is not an arbitrary killing nor is it murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of life. Killing is the lawful taking of life. For example, we can lawfully take a life in defense of our selves, our families, our nations, etc.
When God authorizes the nation of Israel to wipe out a people, it is a lawful execution due to their rebellion and sin against God. Furthermore, such an extermination can be seen to be merciful by delivering the young into the hands of the Lord and possibly saving their souls by not giving them time to become “utterly sinful”.2 Additionally, further generations that would have arisen from the perverse culture, are likewise prevented from coming into existence and spreading their sin.[/quote]
I’ve read enough.
This UTTER BULLSHIT is exactly the reason we need to keep a firm check on the retard “Sky Wizard” people. This is why we need to keep religious beliefs out of our government, out of our schools, and out of our workplaces.
You, sir, for believing that the murder of one human being at the hands of another is permissible because the killers Magic-Man-Up-In-The-Sky said it was ok, are a fool, a monster, and a threat to humanity.[/quote]
Someone’s angry…
Look, my opinion was asked and I gave it. Obviously if something goes against your beliefs it must be wrong.
God did order the killing of those people. Rest assured God will not ask for such a brutal slaughter ever again from his people, for the last judgment and punishment of the wicked will be his and no one elses.
I will never kill an innocent child/adult/animal. That is not in God’s will.[/quote]
Obviously if something PERMITS THE KILLING OF AN INNOCENT CHILD AT THE HANDS OF A FULLY ARMED MAN, its wrong.
I “rest assured” of nothing. I’ll rest assured when your Christanity bullshit is cnsidered as much a farce as Scientology.
You dont know that your stupid Invisible-Man-In-The-Sky will never ask you to kill an innocent person. Besides, WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO SAY WHAT GODS WILL IS, ASSHOLE?
Yes, I’m fucking mad. I’m fucking mad that the rest of the world is at risk because the stupid shit you believe can lead to the slaughter of innocent people that you would condone because your god WHO DOESN’T FUCKING EXIST said it was ok.
Just another argument about ‘faith’
Well, it appears I’ve struck a chord, hmmm???
I suppose me saying that something like that would never happen anytime in the future means nothing eh? As far as the New Testament goes, we are commanded to be loving and kind to one another, and even “offer the other cheek” when struck. The only time killing is acceptable is to defend your own life or the life of a loved one. That is how I know my sky wizard as you like to put it, WILL NEVER ask of that from me or anyone else. The last punishment will be made by him alone.
I know what God’s will is because it is laid out in scripture.
I have used a calm tone throughout this discussion. If you can’t accept what I have to say, then leave it be. This world is full of evil. No doubt you think Im one of them, even though I have stated I would never do such a thing.
I truly see sky wizard’s arch nemesis (Satan) twisting and convoluting your minds against God. This is something I expected and something I cannot change. Unless you have other questions to ask…
Let us continue, if anyone has anything further to ask me.
So can we all agree that religion is probably the most dangerous force on the planet? In both past and present, it is the key factor in justifying genocide (while at the same time telling people to love each other).
WHAT A FUCKING JOKE.
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]tmay11 wrote:
The very idea of original sin. How is it that we are responsible for the sins of our past relatives and therefore need to be saved by Christ? Would this idea not be considered archaic and perverse in any other setting? ex - Punishing someone for a crime their Grandpa committed.[/quote]
We are not responsible for them. They are responsible for themselves, and we are responsible for ourselves. But when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they knew what was right and what was wrong. In essence, prior to their sin, they were almost like children, in the fact that they did not know right or wrong. Of course, they only knew one wrong, and that was eating from the tree. After though, their minds were opened, and the first clue to their new found knowledge was awareness of their nakedness. Anyways, we share that “knowledge” of good and evil. And since we are bombarded with these choices everyday, we constantly have to choose. Since we mostly choose evil (though this is subjective) then we require sanctification, which God gave through Jesus the Christ.
[quote]
Why does God need to come to earth reincarnate and have himself crucified to forgive our sins? Could he have not just forgiven us? Is there “honor” in being sacrificed when you choose to be? How do you sacrifice yourself to appease yourself?[/quote]
When God makes a command, it will be done. God made it from the beginning that if we sin, we will surely die. This is of course talking about both physical and spiritual death. The point here is that God requires justice for the sins we have committed. Since he demanded death if we sin, then someone has to die. Sounds harsh, but it is the truth. So God can’t just forgive someone. Payment is due somewhere. It is us who deserves this death penalty, but God loves us (I know many people will no doubt laugh at that and claim otherwise, but there’s nothing I can do to change that). God did not nor does not want to see us perish in our sins. So he offered up a sacrifice. Since sin came into the world from man, then it had to be vanquished by a man. No ordinary man can bare all the sins of the world, not even an angel, for angels are susceptible to sin, so God himself can and dies for us.
The examples I gave are nothing like your drunk driving example - I have no problem with a drunk driver getting killed- they have made a choice to do something and so have to accept the consequences- Anybody else that gets killed/injured in the process is a victim of man having free will - The crux of the problem lies in this, please address it - Why is there needless death, death that does not result from the exercise of mans free will? A tsunami that kills thousands of innocent children, disease that results from genetic factors etc. If god created the earth and is omnipotent then he CHOOSES for these things to happen - that is the only possible answer that can be deduced. God CHOOSES that children suffer with cancer for 2 years before they die(I guess its okay though as they are happy in heaven…). God CHOOSES that earthquakes wipe out thousands of innocent and put others through horrendous suffering.
You obviously totally failed to see what I was getting at - I’m talking about events THAT MAN HAS NO CONTROL OVER .
How does this reconcile with a “JUST” god? No one has ever been able to give me an answer to this.
There are other things in your post I would like to respond to but lets start with just this one.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Anyone who says its ok for one person to kill another “because God said so” is a very dangerous threat to the rest of us and needs a very close watch put on them.
Lest they decide their god has commanded them to kill me, or you, or your family.[/quote]
Thing is, you totally hate me and think I should most likely be exterminated, yet I have nothing but respect for you, and though it means nothing, I pray that God may bless you, CappedAndPlanIt, Swoleupinya, and anyone else who disagrees with me.
May the God you disbelieve in Bless you (I mean that).
[quote]forbes wrote:
Well, it appears I’ve struck a chord, hmmm???
I suppose me saying that something like that would never happen anytime in the future means nothing eh? As far as the New Testament goes, we are commanded to be loving and kind to one another, and even “offer the other cheek” when struck. The only time killing is acceptable is to defend your own life or the life of a loved one. That is how I know my sky wizard as you like to put it, WILL NEVER ask of that from me or anyone else. The last punishment will be made by him alone.
I know what God’s will is because it is laid out in scripture.
I have used a calm tone throughout this discussion. If you can’t accept what I have to say, then leave it be. This world is full of evil. No doubt you think Im one of them, even though I have stated I would never do such a thing.
I truly see sky wizard’s arch nemesis (Satan) twisting and convoluting your minds against God. This is something I expected and something I cannot change. Unless you have other questions to ask…
Let us continue, if anyone has anything further to ask me.
[/quote]
Let’s start with Genesis.
Genesis 2:17- But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Genesis 5:5- And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
So which one is it? (obviously, God LIED, right?)
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Well, it appears I’ve struck a chord, hmmm???
I suppose me saying that something like that would never happen anytime in the future means nothing eh? As far as the New Testament goes, we are commanded to be loving and kind to one another, and even “offer the other cheek” when struck. The only time killing is acceptable is to defend your own life or the life of a loved one. That is how I know my sky wizard as you like to put it, WILL NEVER ask of that from me or anyone else. The last punishment will be made by him alone.
I know what God’s will is because it is laid out in scripture.
I have used a calm tone throughout this discussion. If you can’t accept what I have to say, then leave it be. This world is full of evil. No doubt you think Im one of them, even though I have stated I would never do such a thing.
I truly see sky wizard’s arch nemesis (Satan) twisting and convoluting your minds against God. This is something I expected and something I cannot change. Unless you have other questions to ask…
Let us continue, if anyone has anything further to ask me.
[/quote]
Let’s start with Genesis.
Genesis 2:17- But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Genesis 5:5- And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
So which one is it? (obviously, God LIED, right?)
[/quote]
No, he didn’t. He said he would die and he did. Originally we were to live eternally. So 930 years is nothing. The age of death decreased with each successive generation.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
The original is infallible and inerrant.[/quote]
There it is. Provide proof.[/quote]
You want proof that the Catholic Church thinks the original is infallible and inerrant?
I’ll get you that information, after I make a correction to my statement. Infallibility only refers to an active agent. So, even though the Bible is not fallible, it is not infallible either.
Plus the Council of Trent, Carthage, and Hippo. See, the Catholic Church believes that the Bible is inerrant.[/quote]
No, I want proof that it is infallible and inerrant.
“So, even though the Bible is not fallible, it is not infallible either.”
Wow.[/quote]
For something to be infallible or fallible it has be an active agent. The Bible is a book, not an active agent. So therefore can be neither described as fallible or infallible. The proper term (which I was made aware of last night) or verb is inerrant.
[quote]Pangloss wrote:
This doesn’t actually say how - this just punishes those who ‘add’ to the book of revelation (not the entire bible, since it wasn’t compiled at the time). Further, we don’t actually know anything about the authors - they could have been punished!
So the question of how remains, in my mind.[/quote]
You’re correct. In The Revelation to Saint John, he is talking about that if anyone takes away stuff (the original saying scroll) from this prophecy then they’ll be punished.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
God lawfully has the right to execute judgment upon anyone. The Bible says that all people have sinned against God and are under his righteous judgment. Therefore, their execution is not an arbitrary killing nor is it murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of life. Killing is the lawful taking of life. For example, we can lawfully take a life in defense of our selves, our families, our nations, etc.
When God authorizes the nation of Israel to wipe out a people, it is a lawful execution due to their rebellion and sin against God. Furthermore, such an extermination can be seen to be merciful by delivering the young into the hands of the Lord and possibly saving their souls by not giving them time to become “utterly sinful”.2 Additionally, further generations that would have arisen from the perverse culture, are likewise prevented from coming into existence and spreading their sin.[/quote]
I’ve read enough.
This UTTER BULLSHIT is exactly the reason we need to keep a firm check on the retard “Sky Wizard” people. This is why we need to keep religious beliefs out of our government, out of our schools, and out of our workplaces.
You, sir, for believing that the murder of one human being at the hands of another is permissible because the killers Magic-Man-Up-In-The-Sky said it was ok, are a fool, a monster, and a threat to humanity.[/quote]
Straw-man. See there are no private revelations anymore, Capped. So, for someone to say that they murder someone because God said it was ok, they are merely lying.
And to keep referring to God as the “Sky Wizard” and “Magic Man In The Sky” just makes your argument more of a fallacy since you’re not addressing the argument and instead trying to make fun of the subject.