Oh, and as for the ‘horrible’ bias against males in medical research, etc - Most of the research companies, pharmacutical companies and government agencies are RUN BY MEN so if there is a double standard it is one that was created by men in the first place.
It’s revealing that no one provided any evidence refuting the statistics I posted. Instead of statistics, we get Michelle’s rant about all the governmental agencies and pharmaceutical companies being run by men. I don’t even know if that’s true anymore, what with the majority of college and advanced degrees being awarded to women today.
Michelle, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I respect it, but if your’re going to cop an attitude about the horrible state of women in America today, don’t do it on a website that touts itself as the number one source of hardcore information for MEN and not expect to be challenged.
“Instead of statistics, we get Michelle’s rant about all the governmental agencies and pharmaceutical companies being run by men.”
I don't think I'd exactly call that a rant, but anyway, I will get current numbers for you since you seem to want to see them. The way I see it, since a majority of companies are owned by men and run by men, if a double standard exisits it is ultimately the fault of the men who are in charge.
"but if your're going to cop an attitude about the horrible state of women in America today, don't do it on a website that touts itself as the number one source of hardcore information for MEN and not expect to be challenged."
I'm not sure I copped any more attitude than usual *grin* I said nothing about the horrible state of women in America. I simply stated that comparing cosmetic use of steriods by men with medicinal use of steriods by women makes no sense. I would consider steriod use by a man experessly for the purpose of developing more muscle mass to be cosmetic. If that creates better self esteem and better quality of life, that's great, but it is still cosmetic - not much different than a boob job or a face lift for a woman.
A few numbers to chew on while I do more digging – from ceogo.com
- According to the 2002 Fortune 500/1000 lists, there are 11 women leading Fortune 1,000 companies and 10 women CEOs running our nation's Fortune 500. (Fortune , April 15, 2002)
- There are nine women heading up the nation's largest 1,000 companies and 1.2 percent women chief executives running Fortune 500 companies. (The New York Times, January 13, 2002)
Yup, you’re right, women sure are moving up in corporate America!
I won’t even get into the difference in government representation for men vs. women. Women have only had the right to vote nationally for the past 82 years, but until recent years there were no women to vote for. In modern times, however, women have had the opportunity to put qualified women in office but have not, so that’s our own damn fault.
Men have more power and stature in this culture, I’m not refuting that. What I am saying is that if white men are so oppressed and there is so much bias against them they only have themselves to blame.
Look, I am not trying to sound like a screaming feminist here, but this is the way things are.
“Maybe then men’s life expectancy will catch up to women’s and we will be closer to true gender equity in this country.”
LOL. Yeah, we have it SO rough. We make more money for the same work, carry more social power by sole virtue of our genitals, and never have to worry about being raped (unless we get sent to prison). We get the good jobs. We don’t suffer negative social repercussion as we age. When we get wrinkles and grey hair, it’s a sign of character; when women do, it’s a sign that they’re getting old. We don’t get condescension when we ask a contractor for an estimate. We aren’t expected to abstain from swearing, sweating, or being aggressive in any endeavor; it’s downright expected of us, and we’re lauded when we do well.
I really don’t think you want to enter into a debate on which gender has more sociopolitical power in the world. Perhaps you’d also like to support the notion that Santa Claus is an attempt by NAAFA to brainwash kids into believing that “fat is beautiful”? Give me a break.
I will absolutely concede that your cites are valid. But if you’re going to use them to support the idea that men are oppressed, you have a LOT more homework to do on the sociology of gender.
Look fellas, men run the world. Always have. We have it easy, ESPECIALLY us white guys. You want to bitch? Find something else to bitch about. If you could change your sex for one day, you would change your tune before noon. If this tiny little infusion of “anti-male” bias sends you into hysterical fits, imagine what REAL adversity would do to you. If you call yourself a man, quit whining and start acting like one.
Demo Dick I didn’t take my own post that seriuoly I just read the article about hormone therapy in the New York Times and about 15 minutes later I typed the post.Trust me I don’t stay up late at night worrying about this topic,I actually really don’t care that much.it was a more spur of the moment thing,like alot of this posts are in the forum,you just ahve something thats on your mind at the moment(wether or not its that important) while your at the computer and type it in. I do believe that all groups and people face predujices in society,including males,but it is not my main concern.
(Transplanted from a mis-post):
gymdawg wrote:
“Never in my post did I say men are "oppressed." I don't believe any group in American society is truly oppressed today. I'm merely pointing out that life isn't a complete cakewalk for men as so many women seem to believe. Most CEOs are men? So what? How does that make the life of the average male working stiff any better? Men get paid more for the same work. Bullshit. Studies have shown that when factors such as experience, education, hours worked, etc are taken into account, the "gender pay gap" virtually disappears. There's an assumption in society today that women are morally, physically, mentally and spiritually superior to men. Men are viewed as nothing more than crude, sexually driven animals. One would think on a website called "Testosterone," masculinity would be celebrated. Apparently not, at least from DemoDick's post, which calls my manhood into question. I refuse to run around apologizing for being a man simply because most CEOs are men, women have only had the right to vote for 82 years and men have always "run the world." I believe what I believe and will defend it, regardless of who disagrees or what they say. That's what I think being a man is all about..”
You never said men were “oppressed”? It sure sounded like that’s what you were getting at. The overriding tone of your posts laments the lot of men in American society; I’m merely saying that we have no reason to complain. We have the upper hand in WAY too many areas to start whining about the areas in which we DO get shafted. So Oprah has her own magazine. So we’re expected to pick up the tab on a date. Sometimes we have to go off to war and get our asses shot off. Big deal. After all of that and more, we STILL have it pretty good.
“Studies have shown that when factors such as experience, education, hours worked, etc are taken into account, the gender pay gap virtually disappears.”
“Studies have shown”? I’ve heard this a lot. My response is always the same: point me in the direction of the research. I prefer entire articles to abstracts.
“There's an assumption in society today that women are morally, physically, mentally and spiritually superior to men.”
Not by me. I doubt very much that this assumption is as widespread as you seem to think. Both genders have their respective strengths and weaknesses, and I believe that most people are aware of that.
“Men are viewed as nothing more than crude, sexually driven animals.”
Sometimes we are, because we act that way. Guess what? Sometimes, so are women, because THEY act that way. You just gotta rub ‘em correctly.
“One would think on a website called ‘Testosterone,’ masculinity would be celebrated.”
So now YOU have exclusive rights to define what masculinity is and isn’t? My definition includes a certain degree of stoicism. Yours, apparently, does not.
“I refuse to run around apologizing for being a man simply because most CEOs are men, women have only had the right to vote for 82 years and men have always ‘run the world.’”
A bit defensive, aren’t you? No one said that you had to apologize for being a man. But complaining about how men are treated is unjustified.
I love being a man and all that comes with it. I like writing my name in the snow, blowing shit up, and killing my food. I also am very thankful that I was born a man, as I doubt very much that I would have had the patience to put up with the horseshit that comes along with being born a woman. Unless, of course, all of those movies about women’s prisons are factual.
My post was directed at gymdawg.
Due to my own idiocy, my reply was posted under the thread “Where are you from.” Readers of that thread must be wondering what in the hell I’m talking about. You know how we men are, we screw everything up unless a woman is watching over our shoulder:)
Anyway, there’s no disputing Michelle’s statistics regarding the gender make-up of the leaders of Fortune 500 companies. I concede that part of the gender disparities noted in my original post are the fault of men–men who spinelessly cave in to the demands of “womens’ groups” to court female consumers and voters. This discussion has gone far afield from the intent of my original post: to provide evidence that there may not be a bias against females in medical research. You may choose to accept or reject that evidence, but it is rarely mentioned by the mainstream media. Lastly, I want to thank Michelle and DemoDick for a civil discussion of this issue. Oftentimes, when I discuss gender issues, the debate turns to personal attacks and name calling and that is not the cae here.