[quote]John S. wrote:
Wait a second, Why the fuck am I caring what people from Austria and Canada say about America.[/quote]
Why indeed.
Don’t leave the confort of your bubble. You might catch a cold, or worse yet, see things as they are.
Nothing worse than surrounding yourself with like-minded complacent fellows who don’t challenge your beliefs. The best illustration would be W and his cronies.
[quote]John S. wrote:
Wait a second, Why the fuck am I caring what people from Austria and Canada say about America.[/quote]
John,
You’re letting these guys yank your chain.
America, being the most moral country on earth, only introduces a draft during times of extreme danger — WWII, the Cold War, and so forth. As soon as a war is over, we usually ditch the draft pretty quickly, because we KNOW that forcing people to fight is immoral. We know that in a fight to the death, morality goes out the window.
But here’s the hard part for libs to get: protecting your country, whether drafted or volunteer, is a heroic act. I am no fan of big gov’t, yet I honor the bravery and dedication of the men who fought…and drafted or not, they fought and won.
“Its not easy to tell men that you work with and love, to go out and die. But they did it…and they won.”
— George S. Patton
[quote]lixy wrote:
Nothing worse than surrounding yourself with like-minded complacent fellows who don’t challenge your beliefs. The best illustration would be W and his cronies.[/quote]
Wait, wait, wait - this, coming from you?
You are a slave to your narrow ideology and immune to other points of view. Perhaps others can make this claim - you haven’t the credibility to do so.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
John S. wrote:
Wait a second, Why the fuck am I caring what people from Austria and Canada say about America.
John,
You’re letting these guys yank your chain.
America, being the most moral country on earth, only introduces a draft during times of extreme danger — WWII, the Cold War, and so forth. As soon as a war is over, we usually ditch the draft pretty quickly, because we KNOW that forcing people to fight is immoral. We know that in a fight to the death, morality goes out the window.
But here’s the hard part for libs to get: protecting your country, whether drafted or volunteer, is a heroic act. I am no fan of big gov’t, yet I honor the bravery and dedication of the men who fought…and drafted or not, they fought and won.
“Its not easy to tell men that you work with and love, to go out and die. But they did it…and they won.”
— George S. Patton
[/quote]
Your right, It was late last night when I posted that please forgive me for about to give up on this one.
And thanks for putting what I was trying to explain into much better words.
[quote]pookie wrote:
[/quote]
pookie,
I sincerely appreciate all the time you put into this post.
First, I would like to request some new nicknames.
Dumb and cheerleader aren’t as stinging as they once were.
Thanks.
Second,
Here is the Iraqi Government begging Congress to keep up the effort. Oh, this was May 2007.
Finally, pookie. If we were in Iraq only to further our interests, pray tell why we aren’t using their resources to pay for the effort?
You’ve never answered that one. Don’t bring something weak like, “You can’t defend the oil fields.”
If we wanted the oil, we’d make an enormous safe-zone, scorch the earth around it for 50 miles, kill everything that tries to approach, and transport the oil.
This is one aspect of the argument you’ve never been able to explain away.
Good luck,
JeffR
Yes, of course, Canada is SO different than the US with respect to personal freedoms.
John, if the best you’ve got is that you don’t have to listen to people that don’t live where you live and think what you think, then you are an absolute fucking moron.
If you don’t understand why that is the case, then, again, you are an absolute fucking moron.
Also, don’t let HH encourage you, he is trolling and yanking your chain, just for sport, so he can watch you continue to make a fool of yourself.
Oh, I can hear the cries of indignation already.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
If we were in Iraq only to further our interests, pray tell why we aren’t using their resources to pay for the effort?[/quote]
So that dipshits like you can feel altruistic and have something to crow about while beating your chest.
[quote]
JeffR wrote:
If we were in Iraq only to further our interests, pray tell why we aren’t using their resources to pay for the effort?[/quote]
Jeffy is so dumb, he thinks that if big oil companies were ripping off Iraqi oil, that the American taxpayers would be the ones to reap the benefits.
Or is he playing dumb, I can never tell.
You’re right Jeffy, Exxon cares deeply about you and your limp wallet.
Okay, back on topic:
Best Thing Pres. Bush Has Done?
Lets see…
The Dubai Ports deal?
Trashing the Geneva Conventions?
Nominating Harriet Miers for Supreme Court?
The fanatstic recovery of the Gulf Coast?
Sticking by Donald Rumsfeld through thick and thin?
[quote]bradley wrote:
JeffR wrote:
If we were in Iraq only to further our interests, pray tell why we aren’t using their resources to pay for the effort?
Jeffy is so dumb, he thinks that if big oil companies were ripping off Iraqi oil, that the American taxpayers would be the ones to reap the benefits.
Or is he playing dumb, I can never tell.
You’re right Jeffy, Exxon cares deeply about you and your limp wallet.[/quote]
Hello, bradley.
First of all, for disciple of moveon.org to call anyone “dumb” makes me laugh.
Second, please tell me you aren’t trying to contend that if there was suddenly a glut of new oil on the market that OPEC and Senators trying to score political points wouldn’t be able to force a lowering of the price?
Further, by using Iraqi oil to fund their own reconstruction, much of the burden would be lifted from our wallets.
In summary, if you didn’t constantly make me look so good by comparison, I’d ask you to leave.
JeffR
[quote]Brad61 wrote:
Sticking by Donald Rumsfeld through thick and thin?[/quote]
Sticking up with his other pal through the Face Shooting Incident.
After all… what are best buds for?
[quote]John S. wrote:
Oh please, now your saying america isn’t the land of freedom anymore, is today a huge pot smoking day or something 420 was last month guys.[/quote]
America has lost its way in regard to the freedoms it promised 200 years ago.
[quote]vroom wrote:
John, if the best you’ve got is that you don’t have to listen to people that don’t live where you live and think what you think, then you are an absolute fucking moron.
[/quote]
Good point. What is the difference between someone who lives in another country verses an other state, county, or city? Is the US the only country with interests outside the US?
This is a problem that many, if not most, Americans have. They have been brainwashed so bad by self-loving, American propaganda that they are unwilling to think that some other perspective could be valuable. It has been and will continue to be this country’s undoing.
Arrogance breeds ignorance.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
pookie,
I sincerely appreciate all the time you put into this post.
First, I would like to request some new nicknames.
Dumb and cheerleader aren’t as stinging as they once were.
Thanks.[/quote]
How about MuffinR? You same to have muffins on the brain these days. I guess we should be glad, since it’s the first time we have evidence that you even have a brain.
Using it as a plate is probably “best effort” from you, so congrats.
Begging? That’s all you’ve got?
My previously posted link http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/10/AR2007051000387.html (also May 2007) involves the signing of a draft bill calling to a timetable to be established as to when you’re getting the fuck out.
So please, dear muffin-eater, please read the links I post and try to keep up. Your unfounded media spin doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.
That’s because you think “our interests” means the US people. Thanks for the good belly laugh; always fun to work out those abs.
The “interests” that where intended to be furthered have been extremely well furthered. Just follow the money trail and look at who benefited most for the war. Hint: Look for huge multinational corporations with friends in high places.
Second, your secondary goal of establishing a permanent presence in the region is well on its way too. You’re never leaving Iraq; not completely. Why else build all those permanent military bases and that huge embassy?
So you see, Muffinito, the real goals have been quite successfully reached. Business was done; bases where built. Didn’t cost that many lives either. What’s the use of a large army if you’re not going to use it, right?
Like anyone cares about the oil fields.
You keep forgetting that the war has nothing to do with oil. Wouldn’t that be a little too obvious?
How goes that WMD search by the way? Found any?
The explanation is simple: You’re too naive and misinformed to understand the situation. Your muffiny conclusions are all simplistic and wrong.
Mmmkay, Muffinito?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
America has lost its way in regard to the freedoms it promised 200 years ago.[/quote]
Yeah? Do tell. What freedoms did you have then that you don’t have now?
Outside of property freedoms - but I suspect that isn’t what you were thinking.
You said arrogance breeds ignorance. My money says you are about to prove your theory.
He defeated Gore and Kerry. I thank him greatly for this.
Edit** I seem to have walked into a tangential discussion. Please, excuse my outburst.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Yeah? Do tell. What freedoms did you have then that you don’t have now?
[/quote]
It is not a question of what was then versus what is now; it is more about the ideal of “live and let live” that has been lost.
Here are a few things that I think we have lost our way on:
Habeas corpus; eminent domain; personal liberty; taxation; isolationism; corporate interests.
Why am I not allowed to grow marijuana in my garden for personal use?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
It is not a question of what was then versus what is now; it is more about the ideal of “live and let live” that has been lost.[/quote]
That ethic you subscribe to is one of personal preference - the early days of the Republic didn’t subscribe to it, so don’t romanticize a myth.
That ideal - in the way you suggest it - has never been our ideal.
[quote]Here are a few things that I think we have lost our way on:[
Habeas corpus; eminent domain; personal liberty; taxation; isolationism; corporate interests.[/quote]
Personal liberty is at an all time high - the original Bill of Rights didn’t even apply to the states and we have substantially less “public morality” laws than we used to.
Corporations aren’t inhibiting your freedom - you don’t like what they do, don’t buy their stuff.
Eminent domain? Agreed - you can thank liberal justices for that.
You are drunk driving - you orginally said we had lost our way from the freedoms of our original founding. What you mean is you want a slew of freedoms that don’t necessarily have a basis in our history. Two different things.
This low-threshold “live and let live” theory of the hippy-dippy variety isn’t the bulwark of our republican society and never has been. It has been the thrust of the Left since 1968, but harkening back to the days of Madison and Jefferson is the wrong place to start.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
This low-threshold “live and let live” theory of the hippy-dippy variety isn’t the bulwark of our republican society and never has been. It has been the thrust of the Left since 1968, but harkening back to the days of Madison and Jefferson is the wrong place to start.[/quote]
So, Jefferson could grow but I cannot? Laws that limit personal freedom are exactly what I am talking about. This law would never have passed had it tried 200 years ago. There are other similar laws that have been passed as a guise for security that actually are in show of corporate interests.
Similarly, I am not in favor of legislation that protects people from themselves merely for the sake of protection.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
So, Jefferson could grow but I cannot? Laws that limit personal freedom are exactly what I am talking about. This law would never have passed had it tried 200 years ago. [/quote]
Neither would minimum wage or the byzantine business regulations. What is your point? Jefferson’s era was certainly different - but it was not the libertarian free-for-all you reminisce about. Stop pretending that it was.
Great - then explain them.