Best Platform (Gun Talk)

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Varq, back on subject:

The thing that bothered me about the FN FAL and the HK G3 is that you cannot actually buy either of these rifles in the US. What you get is a reassembled parts kit with an aftermarket upper reciever, which could have been made by any number of companies. From what I have read, a lot of these companies don’t have the best reputations for quality control, and sometimes aren’t even selling their own product as the upper reciever could have been manufactured by an subcontractor. Therefore, the “battle tested” reputation of the rifle is irrelevant, as a big unknown has been subsituted for the original military spec part.

In short, the odds of picking up a lemon when buying an FAL or G3 was high enough to make me scratch them off my list of possibilites, especially since they aren’t going to come with any kind of warranty or guarantee.

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[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
Varq, back on subject:

The thing that bothered me about the FN FAL and the HK G3 is that you cannot actually buy either of these rifles in the US. What you get is a reassembled parts kit with an aftermarket upper reciever, which could have been made by any number of companies. From what I have read, a lot of these companies don’t have the best reputations for quality control, and sometimes aren’t even selling their own product as the upper reciever could have been manufactured by an subcontractor. Therefore, the “battle tested” reputation of the rifle is irrelevant, as a big unknown has been subsituted for the original military spec part.

In short, the odds of picking up a lemon when buying an FAL or G3 was high enough to make me scratch them off my list of possibilites, especially since they aren’t going to come with any kind of warranty or guarantee.[/quote]

This goes for all four of the big four to some extent. Until recently you couldn’t buy a military-grade M14, only a Springfield M1A whose cast receiver was made in Brazil, and whose parts were not always of the highest quality. Either that or buy one of the Chinese knockoffs like Poly-Tech or Norinco, which actually produced higher-quality forged receivers, but all the other parts were crap. You could use the receivers to build a pretty great rifle, though, with USGI parts. Today we have Fulton Armory and Smith Armory who build excellent M14 rifles from the ground up: they are superior in quality and accuracy to the original USGI M14s.

As for the G3s and FALs, you can still find some of the original Heckler & Koch and Fabrique Nationale rifles that were imported before the heinous Assault Weapons Ban, but they cost a fortune. I had an HK-91 back in the 1980s. I think it cost 300 dollars at the time. Being an idiot, I sold it before I moved to Japan. Yes, I am still kicking myself for that. I think the majority of the bad reputation for these rifles comes from some bad apples produced by Century Arms. The reports for DSA’s FAL clone, and PTR’s G3 clone, have been very good.

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i’m looking forward to contributing to this thread.

my favorite guns are the m240b and the .50 cal. that’s what I normally use when I play COD. the 240b is fully automatic and you can hit a guy from across pretty much any map if you have the acog and FMJ perk on

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[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
i’m looking forward to contributing to this thread.

my favorite guns are the m240b and the .50 cal. that’s what I normally use when I play COD. the 240b is fully automatic and you can hit a guy from across pretty much any map if you have the acog and FMJ perk on[/quote]

Hahahahaha!

Okay.

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serious question is serious.

what do you think about this weapon

adding this rail

http://texasweaponsystems.com/id1.html

and then putting some kind of 1.5-6x scope on it (suggestions are welcome, somewhere around ~500 bucks please)

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For about half the cost of a Galil or Valmet, you can turn a Vepr into a rifle that is easily their equal.

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
serious question is serious.

what do you think about this weapon

adding this rail

http://texasweaponsystems.com/id1.html

and then putting some kind of 1.5-6x scope on it (suggestions are welcome, somewhere around ~500 bucks please)[/quote]

Of the various combloc Kalashnikov variants on the market, the Vepr probably has the most going for it in terms of strength and quality of construction. It’s based on an RPK receiver rather than an AK, so the action is more robust, which for 7.62 gives it an edge, in my book, over the Saiga. My only issue would be the availability of magazines. If the rifle could be modified to function reliably with M14 or FAL magazines, this would make it more desirable, but the non-milspec, proprietary mags might get expensive to buy (particularly if we’re talking 20-round magazines) and hard to replace in a pinch.

In terms of reliability, well, it’s a Kalashnikov. No worries there. Inherent accuracy? Probably on par with a 7.62 Galil or Valmet, another two excellent Kalashnikov variants.

Mounting optics on a Kalashnikov is a little problematic; haven’t had any experience with the integral dust cover rail you linked, but it seems more practical than the side-mounted rails I have seen. An ACOG or a Browe optical sight would be the ideal, but obviously out of your 500 dollar range. For around 750 you can get a Trijicon 1.25-4x Accupoint which while not quite as robust as the ACOG would probably do the job admirably, as would the good old Leupold Mk IV in 1.5-5x.

For myself, of course, since I can’t have a SIG 751 SAPR (a Swiss Kalashnikov in 7.62: the best of all worlds), if I wanted a low-cost (1000 dollars) 7.62 battle rifle that is rugged and reliable as an AK, accurate as an M14, and compact as an M16, with cheap magazines and spare parts, I guess I would stick to the PTR-91.

But I would not say no to the Vepr, properly outfitted.

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[quote]Varqanir wrote:

But I would not say no to the Vepr, properly outfitted.

[/quote]

I am excited to hear that. bought the vepr today. having my good friend pick it up, and sending him the parts. gonna be home in two months so looking forward to having playtime with it.

I shot a G3 for you, btw. it was nice.

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[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

But I would not say no to the Vepr, properly outfitted.

[/quote]

I am excited to hear that. bought the vepr today. having my good friend pick it up, and sending him the parts. gonna be home in two months so looking forward to having playtime with it.

I shot a G3 for you, btw. it was nice.[/quote]

That looks like a Pakistani HK33. I’m guessing the red selector markings are in Urdu?

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Actually, after doing a bit of checking, I see that it is a Turkish MKE T-50. Interesting.

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http://stores.csspecs.com/-strse-Vepr-308/Categories.bok

HolyMac, here is a link to the guy who makes the best after market .308 Vepr mags. They are top quality, but not cheap.

Please let me know know how that Texas Weapons Systems rail works out. I’ve been thinking about grabbing one, but other things need my money right now.

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[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
http://stores.csspecs.com/-strse-Vepr-308/Categories.bok

HolyMac, here is a link to the guy who makes the best after market .308 Vepr mags. They are top quality, but not cheap.

Please let me know know how that Texas Weapons Systems rail works out. I’ve been thinking about grabbing one, but other things need my money right now.[/quote]

thank you for that link, will def grab some from there.

for the rail - I noticed on the site that is says ‘fits version1. how do I know if it will fit my rifle?’

sorry for the potentially newb questions, haven’t been much of an AK guy until recently

this is the vepr I purchased

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[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
http://stores.csspecs.com/-strse-Vepr-308/Categories.bok

HolyMac, here is a link to the guy who makes the best after market .308 Vepr mags. They are top quality, but not cheap.

Please let me know know how that Texas Weapons Systems rail works out. I’ve been thinking about grabbing one, but other things need my money right now.[/quote]

thank you for that link, will def grab some from there.

for the rail - I noticed on the site that is says ‘fits version1. how do I know if it will fit my rifle?’

sorry for the potentially newb questions, haven’t been much of an AK guy until recently

this is the vepr I purchased

Mac, as far as I know, Vepr 2s have a front sight that is integrated into the receiver like a FAL, whereas Vepr 1s have the AK-style front sight. The rifle in your link appears to be a 1, so the dust cover rail should work.

Please duly note use of weasel words “should” and “appears to be” and “as far as I know”. This absolves me of all blame if your rail doesn’t fit. :slight_smile:

Look on your rifle’s receiver when you get back home. If it says “VEPR II” you are TSOL. Otherwise you’re good.

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[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Look on your rifle’s receiver when you get back home. If it says “VEPR II” you are TSOL. Otherwise you’re good.

[/quote]

thanks for the tip. i’m actually having it built while I finish up here so when I get home I can take her out to the range asap. i’ll pass that onto my buddy building it though.

and obvi pics

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[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
thanks for the tip. i’m actually having it built while I finish up here so when I get home I can take her out to the range asap. i’ll pass that onto my buddy building it though.

and obvi pics[/quote]

Are you having it built by a company, or just a friend who knows what he’s doing?

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[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

Are you having it built by a company, or just a friend who knows what he’s doing?[/quote]

friend who knows what he’s doing. but I imagine i’ll just have all the parts/furniture sent to where the gun was shipped, have them install it, and then my buddy can go zero it/let me know how it groups with what ammo all all that nerdy stuff

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also - do you guys have more info on gun trusts expiring on 31 Oct at the end of this month? I heard a rumor that after that the only way to get class III will be getting a chief law enforcement signature.

not sure if true or not