Being vege is usually stupid. There are some - not many by % of population - who thrive on it though. Problem is when there is someone who thrives on it they automatically assume that it is the same for EVERYONE, and it F@#$ing isn’t.
There are also some humans who thrive on a pretty much all-meat diet.
In ancient times (2,500 to 500 years ago) there were many Germanic tribes who pretty much only ate meat. Farming of any kind was prohibited because they considered it weak. I’d say most people in those tribes who were genetically built to thrive on vege diet, died out.
Other cultures were quite different of course.
But basically very few people are meant to be mostly vege. Just about anyone CAN be vege but there is a cost - it doesn’t automatically enhance your health. On the other hand, being vege for awhile might do some people some good.
However most people would be shocked how many people have chronic health conditions because they have excluded meat, and end up in hospital, or just wither away through life.
You know, I’ve been a vegetarian for two years, and reading T-Nation for a few months. I’ve been thinking about it all for a while, and this thread just kind of pushed me over the edge.
I just got a sushi craving and went and had a plate of sashimi because of this thread. You bastards, haha.
Anyway, yeah, I’ve been at a plateau of sorts with my body for who knows how long and the fatigue thing has also applied. Well, first step I guess.
Hell I think I’d have an amazing body by now if i ate meat. But it’s been more than a year without any meat (except fish, i have that like once a month). I doubt I’m going back. I think milk and other proteins are good enough for me, and I am growing. I simply think i’d be doing better with tons of kebabs.
ah well, i have my priorities and i’m willing to have slower gains… gains are still coming after all and people (normal people, not bodybuilding ppl) are really impressed by the muscles i gained in a year. (i went vegetarian and started training at about the same time).
the good thing about this thread is that you have many vegans and vegetarians going back to eating meat with no problem… this is comforting for me because it tells me that if i ever decide to eat meat again, my body will accept it. I dont like to be in a situation where there’s no going back.
Nope.
That means there are 8 carbs.
Fiber CANNOT be used as energy.
[quote]mrjoshua wrote:
I tried to keep my diet clean while I was a vegetarian, but eating over a 3000 calorie diet usually meant a lot of carbs. Carbs make me blow up. If I do a no carb day, then eat a dinner with a bunch of carbs, I look like I gained 10 pounds (and not a good 10 pounds). I did a superdrol cycle and gained like 15 pounds, 10 of which were fat. It was too hard to get quality protein (I tried not to eat soy) without downing 6 shakes a day. I spent my life researching and cooking.
Working full time and being in college full time, it just made me pissed off when I had to spend an hour cooking and cleaning. I wish I had the resolve you vegetarians have and I give you props.
I think what triggered it the most was breaking up with my girlfriend and feeling this need to look good so I can catch a hot lady. I like animals, but I love girls. Later.
Oh yeah, I had a quick question and I didnt want to start another thread. I am doing the Anabolic Diet, and was wondering about lentils. 1 serving has 17 grams of carbs, but 9 are dietary fiber. Is that cool, or do i count the fiber too?[/quote]
I’ve seriously comtemplated sneaking up on a cow in a farm field, slitting it’s throat and loading the whole 1,200 lbs of free beef into my truck. Seriously who would know that one cow out of 500 is gone and by the time they figure out I could have gone back to snatch 3 or 4 more. Oh the things I’ll do for meat.[/quote]
Sorry to be a dissenter, but the steak on page 1 is not cooked nearly well enough.
I understand that nutritionally, rare is better, but I have worked with too many fucking cattle to want meat that is still half-living.
Well done for me.
[quote]der Koning wrote:
E-man wrote:
Sad but true facts about me:
I’ve seriously comtemplated sneaking up on a cow in a farm field, slitting it’s throat and loading the whole 1,200 lbs of free beef into my truck. Seriously who would know that one cow out of 500 is gone and by the time they figure out I could have gone back to snatch 3 or 4 more. Oh the things I’ll do for meat.
That was a totally awesome post.
[/quote]
If you have a deep freeze, you can buy quarter and half sides of beef from local farmers, assuming you live in an area where you can find a farmer
[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
Sorry to be a dissenter, but the steak on page 1 is not cooked nearly well enough.
I understand that nutritionally, rare is better, but I have worked with too many fucking cattle to want meat that is still half-living.
Well done for me.
[/quote]
I dont eat it blue because it is nutritionally better (I am not even sure that any nutritional advantage would be significant enough to warrant eating beef rare for this reason), I just love it that way.
This is for all the non fish eating veges out there.
As for the moral issue of eating stuff that has been raised by a farming factory, it is more related to chicken than beef. A lot of beef is actually raised on grass and then bought up by feedyards just before slaughter. So theoretically where almost all chicken is raised in bad conditions, a significantly smaller amount of beef is raised in bad conditions.
I have a question though, is it alright to kill wild animals that have been free all their lives and raised by mother nature to eat? This would minimize their suffering almost completely to just a few seconds if you’re a very good shot.
As for my beliefs, I believe that if it were immoral to eat meat then jesus wouldn’t have fished.
This is for all the non fish eating veges out there.
As for the moral issue of eating stuff that has been raised by a farming factory, it is more related to chicken than beef. A lot of beef is actually raised on grass and then bought up by feedyards just before slaughter. So theoretically where almost all chicken is raised in bad conditions, a significantly smaller amount of beef is raised in bad conditions.
I have a question though, is it alright to kill wild animals that have been free all their lives and raised by mother nature to eat? This would minimize their suffering almost completely to just a few seconds if you’re a very good shot.
As for my beliefs, I believe that if it were immoral to eat meat then jesus wouldn’t have fished.[/quote]
For one thing, cattle in factory farms are given antibiotics so they can eat hay and grains and shit that they arent supposed to eat. Grass is expensive apparently.
Yes, I think killing a wild animal is much more humane than factory farming.
And finally, I think Jesus would be fucking pissed if he saw what we were doing to God’s creatures.
(I’m not a christian, I was just phrasing that as one). Later.
[quote]BlaZe wrote:
BIGRAGOO wrote:
BlaZe wrote:
I was a vege from birth to 20yrs old… hippie parents… I still have not tried steak or pig just chicken and fish. I do have issues with it, guilt being one! but maaaan, I do love the chicken and fish and eggs!
What’s with the guilt thing? I don’t get it. I’m not being an ass, but I can’t wrap my head around the idea that humans should not eat meat just because we realize we don’t have to. God made all these fast reproducing, grass grazing, protein packed, walking slabs of goodness for those that can digest them. We fall in that category. And we are at the top of the food chain. There is no need for guilt from doing what nature has set forth. I guess I’ll never understand.
I hear ya man, but my parents are still practicing and man, can they just crank that guilt machine! esp when we were raised in an Eastern philosophy of hinduism/buddhism, it comes with some spiritual blackmail, so, am tryin to get over it!
[/quote]
Well, I can appreciate the pressure of hinduism/buddhism, especially when it’s coming from your parents. It’s not that I’m saying they are wrong either. I just am left stumped. But for you, be strong. You can eat meat and yet keep peace with your parents…I believe.
For one thing, cattle in factory farms are given antibiotics so they can eat hay and grains and shit that they arent supposed to eat. Grass is expensive apparently.
Yes, I think killing a wild animal is much more humane than factory farming.
And finally, I think Jesus would be fucking pissed if he saw what we were doing to God’s creatures.
(I’m not a christian, I was just phrasing that as one). Later.[/quote]
Cattle in feedlots are given antibiotics so that they don’t get sick from being in such close proximity to so many other cattle. It has nothing to do with cattle getting sick from eating grain. We used to feed our calves grain and feed sorghum without any antibiotics and they didn’t get sick. The reason, there was only about 20 of them in a pin. Grass wouldn’t just be expensive, it would be inefficient. Grass has less calories than does grain. Hauling grass to 50000 head of cattle just doesn’t make sense, and free ranging 50000 head of cattle sounds more like a nightmare. As far as cattle eating stuff that is bad for them, the way the rumen works is that if the cow is given a “hot” food that is laden with carbs in conjunction with any nitrogen source such as hay, the bacteria in the stomach convert the carbs and nitrogen to protein. So basically these foods that you say are “bad” for the cattle are like giving the cattle and protein shake.
Since you said that you think that hunting is more humane, do you hunt?
I don’t think that its a bad thing to use your intelligence to hold your next meal captive in a pen. Mountain lions rip their prey’s stomach out and eat them while they are still alive sometimes. They are god’s creatures and I believe they dispense much more of a painful death than do hunters or packing plants.
I love how we are just animals when it’s convenient. We aren’t just animals anymore. We aren’t “natural” creatures anymore. We define our environment. We have no competition other than ourselves. We call nature vacation, not home. In almost every facet of civilization, being an animal holds a negative connotation. Comparing us to animals proves nothing. Animals let weaker animals in the herd die off. Should we just let all the retarded kids die off and stop curing disease? Lions eat meat because they need it, we eat it because we like it. Huge difference.
I believe that we are civilized animals. Part of becoming civilized included growing our own grains and domesticating animals so that we could eat them, or use them in some other way. Lions need meat they are carnivores. Humans are omnivores meaning they eat both, not one, both. To me that makes it nessecary, to you it doesn’t. I don’t understand why.
[quote]mrjoshua wrote:
I love how we are just animals when it’s convenient. We aren’t just animals anymore. We aren’t “natural” creatures anymore. We define our environment. We have no competition other than ourselves. We call nature vacation, not home. In almost every facet of civilization, being an animal holds a negative connotation. Comparing us to animals proves nothing. Animals let weaker animals in the herd die off. Should we just let all the retarded kids die off and stop curing disease? Lions eat meat because they need it, we eat it because we like it. Huge difference.[/quote]
Ultimately it it reduced to personal priority. On T-Nation the priority is likely going to be one’s body. Many place the desire to gain strength and ability over the reduction of suffering by other creatures. No one here seems to deny that factory farming methods are morally repugnant, but circumstances may not permit action to be taken to directly address these issues. For some the cost of organic grass-fed beef or humanely raised poultry may be too much to pay. For others social circumstances and availability may make vegetarian/vegan eating styles detrimental to the lifestyle one is accustomed to. For many here, quality of protein is the main issue.
Really though, the essential factor that determines our attitudes toward this issue is what we value most. Some may see the plight of factory farming and choose “free-range”, whatever the government says that is, in an effort to try to help the issue without overriding the utility that beef offers. In this scenario they may be willing to spend a little more to help what they think is enough of a concern to warrant action without boycott. Some people will buy the same product in an effort to obtain nutritionally superior beef or poultry with an improved lipid profile. Others will disregard this problem and buy beef from modern production methods, saving money and obtaining similar health benefits from consuming beef rather than vegetable protein. Others still will consume vegetable protein alone at the expense of physical performance gains because they place the value of animal welfare higher than they value the increased speed at which they would improve consuming animal products.
None of these people are any more right or wrong than any other.
We have to consider our priorities and act upon them as we see fit.
[quote]Humans are omnivores meaning they eat both, not one, both. To me that makes it nessecary, to you it doesn’t. I don’t understand why.
[/quote]
You don’t understand because you don’t want to. A need is something you cannot survive without. A lion dies without meat. Many cultures live very long lives on a diet with absolutely no meat. Meat is not necessary to survive. At one point in time it was, I wont argue with that. I like meat, I eat meat, but right or wrong it’s still not necessary for our survival.
[quote]BIGRAGOO wrote:
BlaZe wrote:
BIGRAGOO wrote:
BlaZe wrote:
I was a vege from birth to 20yrs old… hippie parents… I still have not tried steak or pig just chicken and fish. I do have issues with it, guilt being one! but maaaan, I do love the chicken and fish and eggs!
What’s with the guilt thing? I don’t get it. I’m not being an ass, but I can’t wrap my head around the idea that humans should not eat meat just because we realize we don’t have to. God made all these fast reproducing, grass grazing, protein packed, walking slabs of goodness for those that can digest them. We fall in that category. And we are at the top of the food chain. There is no need for guilt from doing what nature has set forth. I guess I’ll never understand.
I hear ya man, but my parents are still practicing and man, can they just crank that guilt machine! esp when we were raised in an Eastern philosophy of hinduism/buddhism, it comes with some spiritual blackmail, so, am tryin to get over it!
Well, I can appreciate the pressure of hinduism/buddhism, especially when it’s coming from your parents. It’s not that I’m saying they are wrong either. I just am left stumped. But for you, be strong. You can eat meat and yet keep peace with your parents…I believe.[/quote]