[quote]Carbon-12 wrote:
Ultimately it it reduced to personal priority. On T-Nation the priority is likely going to be one’s body. Many place the desire to gain strength and ability over the reduction of suffering by other creatures. No one here seems to deny that factory farming methods are morally repugnant, but circumstances may not permit action to be taken to directly address these issues. For some the cost of organic grass-fed beef or humanely raised poultry may be too much to pay. For others social circumstances and availability may make vegetarian/vegan eating styles detrimental to the lifestyle one is accustomed to. For many here, quality of protein is the main issue.
Really though, the essential factor that determines our attitudes toward this issue is what we value most. Some may see the plight of factory farming and choose “free-range”, whatever the government says that is, in an effort to try to help the issue without overriding the utility that beef offers. In this scenario they may be willing to spend a little more to help what they think is enough of a concern to warrant action without boycott. Some people will buy the same product in an effort to obtain nutritionally superior beef or poultry with an improved lipid profile. Others will disregard this problem and buy beef from modern production methods, saving money and obtaining similar health benefits from consuming beef rather than vegetable protein. Others still will consume vegetable protein alone at the expense of physical performance gains because they place the value of animal welfare higher than they value the increased speed at which they would improve consuming animal products.
None of these people are any more right or wrong than any other.
We have to consider our priorities and act upon them as we see fit. [/quote]
Well I went to that www.meetyourmeat.com website… interesting stuff. While I can say it would really hurt to have my balls cut off without any pain killers, or even my throat cut… I’m not changing my eating habits because of it.
The only thing that disturbs me is the cancerous growths on some of the cattle.
All in all though, while I can anthropomorphize all I want… it still doesn’t change the fact that they are our food supply, and we need what they have. I agree with the above post about mountain lions, hell… go to Africa, do you see lions waiting for their food to die? No. The only thing I’ll wait for is a nice rare steak when I’m cooking it on the grill… the bloodier the better.
[quote]tveddy wrote:
Cattle in feedlots are given antibiotics so that they don’t get sick from being in such close proximity to so many other cattle. It has nothing to do with cattle getting sick from eating grain. We used to feed our calves grain and feed sorghum without any antibiotics and they didn’t get sick. The reason, there was only about 20 of them in a pin. Grass wouldn’t just be expensive, it would be inefficient. [/quote]
A lot of farmers give the cattle antibiotics because it increases their growth rate. A lot of farmers feed their cattle all kinds of crap. It sounds like you run a good farm though.
Grass is more expensive and less efficient however in my opinion is superior - to the diets a lot of cattle get. That doesn’t make it the best solution, but better than what a lot of people are doing, as far as quality product is concerned.
[quote]helga wrote:
BarneyFife wrote:
Sorry to be a dissenter, but the steak on page 1 is not cooked nearly well enough.
I understand that nutritionally, rare is better, but I have worked with too many fucking cattle to want meat that is still half-living.
Well done for me.
I dont eat it blue because it is nutritionally better (I am not even sure that any nutritional advantage would be significant enough to warrant eating beef rare for this reason), I just love it that way.[/quote]
[quote]mrjoshua wrote:
I love how we are just animals when it’s convenient. We aren’t just animals anymore. We aren’t “natural” creatures anymore. We define our environment. We have no competition other than ourselves. We call nature vacation, not home. In almost every facet of civilization, being an animal holds a negative connotation. Comparing us to animals proves nothing. Animals let weaker animals in the herd die off. Should we just let all the retarded kids die off and stop curing disease? Lions eat meat because they need it, we eat it because we like it. Huge difference.[/quote]
I have to disagree there… we ARE animals. Quite advanced animals, but still animals. And forgetting where we come from nutrition wise is just ignorant. Our bodies are designed to eat a combined diet with preferably a large amount of protein and healthy fat. I don’t see how eating animals is cruel in any way… But then again, I have grown up on a norwegian farm… and i KNOW that most farmers love their animals and treat them well… I have not grown up on PETA propaganda…
[quote]mrjoshua wrote:
Humans are omnivores meaning they eat both, not one, both. To me that makes it nessecary, to you it doesn’t. I don’t understand why.
You don’t understand because you don’t want to. A need is something you cannot survive without. A lion dies without meat. Many cultures live very long lives on a diet with absolutely no meat. Meat is not necessary to survive. At one point in time it was, I wont argue with that. I like meat, I eat meat, but right or wrong it’s still not necessary for our survival.[/quote]
Bathrooms are not necessary for our survival… universities are not necessary for our survival… many cultures live very long lives without proper housing… learning to read is not necessary for our survival…
now you apply the same logic as you atttac in a previous post yourself… isn’t that a bit sad?
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
tveddy wrote:
Cattle in feedlots are given antibiotics so that they don’t get sick from being in such close proximity to so many other cattle. It has nothing to do with cattle getting sick from eating grain. We used to feed our calves grain and feed sorghum without any antibiotics and they didn’t get sick. The reason, there was only about 20 of them in a pin. Grass wouldn’t just be expensive, it would be inefficient.
A lot of farmers give the cattle antibiotics because it increases their growth rate. A lot of farmers feed their cattle all kinds of crap. It sounds like you run a good farm though.
Grass is more expensive and less efficient however in my opinion is superior - to the diets a lot of cattle get. That doesn’t make it the best solution, but better than what a lot of people are doing, as far as quality product is concerned.
[/quote]
I’ll agree that grass is better than grain for the cattle, but for good marbling and a tender steak you need to feed the cattle grain. Hay is however better for cattle than grass. its not only higher in carbs, but also has higher protein. As far as the antibiotics, if antibiotics are increasing the growth rates, then there must be bacteria that are hindering the growth rates. Antibiotics will only make the cow healthier (you might be thinking of hormones, or the antibiotics that are given to dairy cattle on a regular basis to ward off mastitis. link?[not PETA]).
I thought about posting the same thing, but didn’t feel like getting into it. But since you did i’ll add my two cents. So here is how I feel. People can survive in some of the harshest situations in anything from swamps to deserts, without shelter or clothing, and eating only bugs and berries. Humans can survive through many things, but not thrive.
I believe that to thrive one needs quality protein. I believe that while legumes and nuts and such contain protein, they are not quality protein because they don’t contain enough. This leads me to believe that meat is nessecary. I have never met a vegetarian that looked healthy to me. My definition of healthy is probably remarkably different than theirs, but that is still my belief. Protien is nessecary.
[quote]Adamsson wrote:
mrjoshua wrote:
Humans are omnivores meaning they eat both, not one, both. To me that makes it nessecary, to you it doesn’t. I don’t understand why.
You don’t understand because you don’t want to. A need is something you cannot survive without. A lion dies without meat. Many cultures live very long lives on a diet with absolutely no meat. Meat is not necessary to survive. At one point in time it was, I wont argue with that. I like meat, I eat meat, but right or wrong it’s still not necessary for our survival.
Bathrooms are not necessary for our survival… universities are not necessary for our survival… many cultures live very long lives without proper housing… learning to read is not necessary for our survival…
now you apply the same logic as you atttac in a previous post yourself… isn’t that a bit sad?[/quote]
Dont I look small and emaciated after being vegetarian for 5 years?
Indeed, life would be sad without bathrooms. I probably wouldn’t want to survive without toilet paper, but I could. I’m not trying to argue whether it’s right or wront to eat meat, or if we’re supposed to. The point is that we dont NEED meat. I don’t think we were designed to eat anything in particular. We were designed to be adaptable. We have adapted, and we have evolved. I have not forgotten where I came from. I’m not ignorant to the evolutionary process. You know, if we needed meat so badly to survive, why do we get sick if we don’t cook it properly?
I love all the arrogant fucks on this board. I’m not in the closet about anything. I just have beliefs that aren’t yours. So if you’re going to involve yourself in a conversation, stay on topic. Prove to me that living without meat is impossible and you’ve proved me wrong. You don’t have to prove to me that the majority of people eat meat, trust me I already know. You don’t have to prove to me that it’s right to do it because I never said it was wrong.
I also didn’t even know who peta was until I was like 21. I know how to wade through propaganda. Don’t assume shit about me you self righteous ass. If you read my other posts, you would see that I can’t stand peta. But that doesn’t mean they’re wrong about everything they say. What I WAS raised with was the internet for 16 years now, and I was taught to look things up when I didn’t understand them. Not just agree with evryone else on a board because it makes my balls feel bigger.
And tveddy:
Go to a Mike Mahler workshop. He’s a vegan, and probably stronger than you. I wonder what your idea of healthy is. Asians are generally small and skinny, and have a hell of a lot healthier diet than americans do. How are we not thriving? There is nothing we could do to not thrive. There’s 6 billion of us.
if god hadnt wanted us to eat the animals he wouldnt of made em out of meat!!!im a chef,and im all for killing things humanely(i prefer organic tho in oz its bloody expensive)but i went vegan for 2 months as an experiment once and i couldnt eat enuf beans grains and rice to get my protein requirement and was spending half my time on the shitter,and the rest of the time smelling like i oughta be!!
I’m a firm supporter of PETA…People Eating Tasty Animals.
I could care less if eating meat is right or wrong or if its necessary for survival. All I know is that I like meat, it helps me be strong and healthy and nothing anyone says can change that.
