[quote]lift206 wrote:
[quote]Koestrizer wrote:
I think you are right, I should atleast start with the main movements. One thing bothers me though. If I understood everything correctly I am supposed to do just the minimum of prescribed reps in my 5/3/1 workout, so no more “+ sets”. The thing is I keep getting a lot of reps on those, usually ca. 5 more than minimum. I feel like I would not get enough volume with challenging weight if I just did the minimum reps.
Is it possible to do BBB but keep pushing in the “+ sets” or would this be counter productive?
[/quote]
I didn’t get to finish my post earlier. I was going to say that the BBB Challenge allows you to focus on volume. That’s why Wendler recommended to reset the training maxes and do the minimum number of reps for the top sets because the volume work is the main focus. If you are using exactly 90% of a true max, the training sessions will definitely be challenging. Doing 5x10 for assistance at 50% won’t be so bad but it’ll get tough when you get to the 3rd month and have to do 50 reps of a main lift at 70% intensity.
Once you finish the 3-month Challenge, you can then begin to focus more on intensity as you begin hitting PRs in the top sets during the following months of the 5/3/1 template. After the Challenge, doing what osu122975 prescribed would be best. I actually did something similar where I did 3x8 for assistance but it looks to be a better progression if I tapered off the assistance down to 3x3 as well.
After hitting PRs and missing reps, repeat by going back to the BBB Challenge to build a foundation of volume and then transitioning into intensity. If you commit to the program, you’ll see how important both volume and intensity are for building strength.[/quote]
I see the logic behind this and I think that this is well thought through but wouldn’t it be the better option to start with BBB and focus on volume as soon as I stop making fast progress with the originial template? So for example: For now I continue to use the original 5/3/1, add what osu122975 has advised and as soon as my progression slows down noticeably I focus on volume using BBB and go up in intensity from there (like you said).
[quote]Koestrizer wrote:
I see the logic behind this and I think that this is well thought through but wouldn’t it be the better option to start with BBB and focus on volume as soon as I stop making fast progress with the originial template? So for example: For now I continue to use the original 5/3/1, add what osu122975 has advised and as soon as my progression slows down noticeably I focus on volume using BBB and go up in intensity from there (like you said).
[/quote]
Yes, that sounds like a good plan since you don’t need to make a big change since you’re still making progress. We both threw out ideas for what has worked for us and it’s good that you understand why because you’ll probably make modifications as you see fit.
[quote]ape288 wrote:
Front squats[/quote]
I agree, especially for sumo deadlifters.
[quote]lift206 wrote:
[quote]ape288 wrote:
Front squats[/quote]
I agree, especially for sumo deadlifters.[/quote]
Not sure if this should be a new topic but since front squats came into play: What are your thoughts regarding front squats vs safety squat bar squats? I recently thought about getting a SSB. Not that there is something wrong with front squats but for me personally it is a weird movement, I lose balance easily and it just doesn’t feel right. Also I got injured twice doing front squats (pulled quad which was annoying and minor lower back tweak).
[quote]lift206 wrote:
[quote]Koestrizer wrote:
I see the logic behind this and I think that this is well thought through but wouldn’t it be the better option to start with BBB and focus on volume as soon as I stop making fast progress with the originial template? So for example: For now I continue to use the original 5/3/1, add what osu122975 has advised and as soon as my progression slows down noticeably I focus on volume using BBB and go up in intensity from there (like you said).
[/quote]
Yes, that sounds like a good plan since you don’t need to make a big change since you’re still making progress. We both threw out ideas for what has worked for us and it’s good that you understand why because you’ll probably make modifications as you see fit.[/quote]
This will be my plan going forward, thanks for your help.
Front squats will help. They just take more balance and tightness.
If you really wanna build the sumo, the hips, back, glutes and hamstrings all need the work. Wide stance box squats would probably be the closest alternative movement to the sumo pull that you could do and would more than likely be the most beneficial. Good mornings would also be a great asset.
[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Front squats will help. They just take more balance and tightness.
If you really wanna build the sumo, the hips, back, glutes and hamstrings all need the work. Wide stance box squats would probably be the closest alternative movement to the sumo pull that you could do and would more than likely be the most beneficial. Good mornings would also be a great asset. [/quote]
Wide stance box squats with a SSB to a slightly high box feel almost identical to sumo pulls for me. Just minus grip and some lat recruitment from trying to keep the bar close to you.
It’s also a lot easier to recover from the sumo pulling.
[quote]Koestrizer wrote:
[quote]lift206 wrote:
[quote]ape288 wrote:
Front squats[/quote]
I agree, especially for sumo deadlifters.[/quote]
Not sure if this should be a new topic but since front squats came into play: What are your thoughts regarding front squats vs safety squat bar squats? I recently thought about getting a SSB. Not that there is something wrong with front squats but for me personally it is a weird movement, I lose balance easily and it just doesn’t feel right. Also I got injured twice doing front squats (pulled quad which was annoying and minor lower back tweak). [/quote]
I have never done SSB squats but always hear good things about it. If you get injured doing front squats then it probably isn’t worth doing. I kept them as assistance work for a few months last year. I kept them light enough to do breathing pause squats (for abs) as finishers and for technique work. It helped improve some weaknesses but I felt that I could benefit a lot more by making them my main lift.
I feel comfortable enough to do them for my main movement now. I’m getting stronger and more proficient with the movement but I’ll have to see how it translate to the competition lifts next month. I’ve been following ape288’s training log and he has been a major advocate for front squats because it helps him build the most strength. I’ve moved towards that philosophy as well since I’ve always been limited by upper body static strength and failing to keep my hips under/close to the bar.
Technique-wise, what works best for me is keeping my elbows in and up to tighten my back and keeping my hips under the bar to stay balanced, which helps me to grind through slow reps if necessary. For high frequency/volume work with front squats, I found that putting athletic tape on my neck/collar helps. Otherwise I would have burns on my skin. If the problem had gotten worse I would’ve bought a SSB to use in place of front squats since I thought it would provide similar benefits.
[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Front squats will help. They just take more balance and tightness.
If you really wanna build the sumo, the hips, back, glutes and hamstrings all need the work. Wide stance box squats would probably be the closest alternative movement to the sumo pull that you could do and would more than likely be the most beneficial. Good mornings would also be a great asset. [/quote]
I will give both your suggestions a shot. never really used either one of them besides good mornings with just the bar as part of my warm up.
I tried both suggestions (wide stance box squats and good mornings) today after squats and man did it kick my ass, literally meaning my glutes. The box squats felt like half squats while doing. After I finished I got a side view in the mirror and noticed that I was just a tiny bit over parallel, which shows once more how bad my feeling for depth is (luckily in the sense that I always squat deeper than I think). I then moved on to good mornings with really light weight as this was something totally unfamiliar but it felt pretty good. I think this excercises might really help my sumo, especially because I just recently got the hang of how to load my hamstrings when I pull which I wasn’t really doing before.
So thanks for everybody’s help!