what protocol did he suggest?
I never pick sides unless I feel morally obligated to (Vern and physiolojik, in an off-topic discussion where people were trying to somewhat justify sexual assault, when people outright attack others with vicious, hurtful, racist or homophobic ideology.)
There was no specific protocol. Just keep shooting T until your Free T hit 30-50 pay no attention to E2 or HCT. They will sort them self out in time. OH no AI no HCG even if your tits are leaking water, your dick has quit working, and or your balls have retreated up into your body with throbbing pains.
@unreal24278 @dbossa has been suggesting from the beginning that keeping your free t levels up at 45 ng/dl for long periods is perfectly safe. He has also suggested that letting your estradiol be 2 and 3 x the range is perfectly safe for long periods. We are talking years.
It is not safe to do that.
And although I agree with most of your comments on HCT, the person has to be healthy and it has to do with the activities they will be doing too. Someone with per say a history of AAS which has a weakened heart, may not fair so well with a 54 HCT and it would be wise to lower their dosage.
Or for instance lets say someone decides to go scuba diving. When someone surfaces, especially during the 10 to 1 meter ascent, the dramatic change in pressure can cause a blackout not from lack of 02, but from low blood pressure to the brain stem.
So obviously, high HCT is not good in this scenario.
So there are lots of things to consider when running your HCT that high.
100% true, I disagree with the notion of being CERTAIN that said E2/FT levels are safe over long periods of time, it could be, it could not be. At the moment we simply lack the literature available to demonstrate to us as to what dose exactly veers off the path to significant long term risk, and Iām sure based on genetic predisposition, lifestyle factors and whatnot that dose will significantly differ for everyone.
Iād side somewhere in between both opinions. (see what I did there, not taking sides, although that is actually my opinion). For someone with pre-existing heart disease, cardiomyopathy etc. High HCT could easily spell myocardial infarction!
Well remember when I tout my experience it is not to gloat, but to make people realize I have a view of some things that a lot of people wouldnāt. Thats all.
I posted a lot of labs in this thread proving what those levels do to your lab numbers too.
I donāt think youāre gloating mate, I think youāre simply conveying advice to the masses based on youāre relevant clinical experience in the field.
Said experience in the field WILL differ from doctor to doctor, and differing doctors will harbour differing opinions. I have many members in my family who are within the field of medicine, each has widely differing opinions on various subject matters.
Take opiate painkillers for example, I have one member who thinks theyāre the worst drugs in the world for ANY use, including post-surgical pain and exclaims ibuprofin and acetomitophren + heat and rest is just as good at aiding severe post surgical pain compared to stronger painkillers such as oxycodone and hydrocodone, others believe the medications are perfectly suitable for candidates with legitimate chronic pain (yet despise medicinal marijauna), and others have an in-between attitude, each clinician will harbour differing opinions, sometimes these opinions will be entirely based on anecdotal experience rather than being formed from looking at literature. A combination of study, review and field experience should be the brunt of what makes up a clinicians opinion on various topics, not personal bias based on familial history or whatever. That being said, no matter what we do, we will never live in a society in which all doctors unite regarding opinions on various subject matters regarding medicine, and this can be said for all fields of work.
Yea but I get the clients from those doctors that have a different view on this subject all the time.
38 year old guy, never done steroids in his life. Get him on the phone, he has been with a clinic for 4 years that had him on 300 mg a week the whole time. He used to feel great, feels terrible now.
Thats how I get all those jacked up labs, thats what they look like when they come in. I spend hours educating them on how all this stuff the @dbossaās told them is not true and they feel like crap because their labs are crap. You donāt know how many times I have heard āTodd this guy is a ticking time bombā from one of the docs. HCT 56, 300 triglyceride and now when the poor guy even takes 150mg a week his HCT shoots up
We have been doing this for years. So there isnāt much of an argument about it from my point of view and it is not really an opinion, I have watched it happen over the last decade.
It is all about the amount of time. In the studies I posted it took 2 years of 675 mg of androgens to weaken the users heart, permanently.
Running a 45 ng/dl will take you to the same place, it just takes longer.
Edit: Just the other day guy called he had a stint put in left ventricle. I wanted to help him, he really needs small dose of T to get better, but his doctor wasnāt on board.
If he was closer to us for monitoring, we would have helped him.
My heart exploded. My coronary arteries are filled with fields of plaque after reading this
Was he on anything else perhaps (undisclosed)? Those trigs are TERRIBLE
Some are, but some are guys just on T from a T clinic.
Could you show me this study. Iāve seen the 675mg study but from what I recall the mean use of androgens was 9 years, not 2 years. and LVEF pumping capacity was on average borderline, other factors such as cocaine abuse, HGH/thyroid meds (both known to cause cardiomegaly if abused), stimulants (other than coke) also existed
Itās all the way back in this thread, it is a newer one. Only took 2 years. I am really headed to bed this time lol
Cannnnnnn I seeeeeeeeeee??? I saw a 675mg study (from 2017-2018)
In the recent study conducted at Massachusetts General Hospital, researchers used imaging tests to compare the heart function of steroid-users versus non-users. The study included 140 male weight lifters between 34 and 54 years of age. Among participants, 86 reported using anabolic steroids for at least two years, while 54 reported never using steroids.
Published in the American Heart Association journal Circulation , this study looked at the effects of long-term steroid use on the heart. Anabolic steroids are synthetic substances, derived from the male hormone testosterone, that increase muscle size and strength. While steroids may be used to treat certain health problems like delayed puberty, an estimated 2.9 to 4 million Americans have taken steroids without a prescription to boost athletic performance or appearance. Taking high doses of steroids illegally can have serious negative effects on health, including the heart.
Anabolic Steroids Increase Risk for Heart Disease in Young and Middle-Aged Men
They were using synthetic anabolic steroids. Not testosterone. Of course they had health problems.
Itās another useless observational study using synthetic anabolics. Heās got a ton of these useless, irrelevant observational studies. Sure would be great to see an interventional study where they actually gave testosterone and it caused harm, but he doesnāt seem to have any of those. I wonder why. Oh, right, because there arenāt any.
Just woke up to pee. Carry on.
Thats not true you do not know that. It even notates in the study:
This is confusion on behalf of the writer on what a steroid is, just like you are confused. Testosterone is a steroid, in fact just as far as effects on the heart, Deca is not as rough on you cardiovascular wise because it is not as androgenic.
Not surprised when you have a poor filtration rate and high excretion because of it, your going to pee a lot more too.
Some guys confuse this with BPH.
Itās called 'I drank a ton of water before bed and now I have to pee". Usually I sleep through the night.
Carry on. Nighty night.
I bet you did, you are probably dehydrated from hyper excretion.
Man you really know how to twist words donāt you. Nobody said everyone should go to 30-50. Not once and nobody said let estrogen go through the roof.
Your Fear of estrogen and hate is beyond me. You are angry and mad about something that isnāt even a half truth. Come on man.
Nichols is a doctor. Who are you? Howell is a an expert research doc as well. Dbossa is just another guy. You are sitting here saying they would be deballed and shit, but so far thousands of patients with many years past have not once gone online and left a bad remark that they ended up with the feared gyno or whatever.
Or do you think in 20 years it will happen and a decades not enough?
I donāt know what to tell you. Your hate on the methods they follow is absurd. Why? Because nichols and Howell do not say āhey take 300 mg we need your free t at 30 to 50.ā
They say what danny said not long ago in a post a few hours back. Maybe you can read it and stop the hate.
@increasemyt come on man havenāt you blocked this clown yet. Stop feeding the monkey.
Iāve been on TRT for just over 8 years. My PCP about killed me with T mono. God bless his sole he tried which is better than most PCPs under company insurance. I ended up with gyno my E2 and prolactin was way over range for more than a year it required surgery if insurance had not covered it I would have sued his pants off.
I have been a Defy patient for the last 6 year and it only took them 6 weeks to get me tuned in and I have had no issue since. That said I also blast twice a year with out them knowing it. Life has been good. I have had 5 successful blast with nothing but gains. I am now interested in exploring aasās. Have any advice? My current defy protocol 150mg Tcyp/wk I take 100mg/wk, 800iu HCG/wk and .125mg anastrozole x2 I take .125mg only if I feel high E2 symptoms. For me that is my dick quits working mid stroke. I donāt give a shit about my nipples. Iāve had gyno surgery I can never get gyno again. Anyway all that said I am looking to ad Masteron to my current TRT protocol can you offer any advice?