You are talking about pills man, not injectables. Sorry.
Its just estradiol and the cypionate ester.
What the hell are you talking about??
Every single form of testosterone is bioidentical. The method of administration is irrelevant.
Bio estrogens are VASTLY different from synthetics estrogens in birth control pills. These are provided orally or sublingually.
Find me a damn study, that Iāve asked you ten damn times now, that demonstrates harm when administering exogenous estrogen (bio) or testosterone. There are none! None!
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Yea but not the injectables, they are not the same as birth control. Male to female will actually take birth control and that works, but as you can see 66% of the cohorts reported doing injectable.
The injectable version is not a āsyntheticā it is just estradiol with a ester attached. THATS IT
Guys, Iām done with this asshole. Heās a moron and continues to demonstrate it. If I only knew what he knows after ten years in the business Iād be embarrassed.
Ill address your questions but this idiot is a ghost to me now.
@charlie12 if youāre on FB send me a PM there. I wonāt be sticking around here long. Arguing against people of low intellect is not something I have the time for, nor the patience.
You are mad because you know you are wrong. I hope this will keep you from telling people sky high estradiol and free T is ok cause it is not, obviously. The male to female transgender studies prove it.
As you can see the study notates the most commonly used injectable, it is DELESTROGEN. Which you can see from the graphic below, is just estradiol and a ester. Just like the testosterone we take.
Yeah, because a complete change in gender is relevant to people on HRT. Give me a damn break. Youāre a troll and everyone here knows it.
Goodnight to the rest of you. Iām out.
Dude it CLEARLY notes supra physiological levels of estradiol are associated with VTE. It even says ESPECIALLY.
I am not sure what more you need. I knew this long before the studies came out, I was posting about this with the transgender community on Quora years ago. I just happened to get back to the topic and what do you know, thats exactly what happened.
The internet stamina you two have is incredible. Iām good for about 3 replies until I lose my internet erection and lose all interest.
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Wow and type 2 diabetes! Another thing you see in the research, is the longer they do therapy, the higher the risk goes. 2 years is a LONG time for one of these treatments. Your talking about keeping your E2 levels that high for 5-10-40 years? WOW
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
This study evaluated the short- and long-term cardiovascular- and cancer-related morbidities during cross-sex hormone therapy in a large sample of trans persons.
SUBJECTS AND METHODS:
A specialist center cross-sectional study compared 214 trans women (male-to-female transsexual persons) and 138 trans men (female-to-male trans persons) with an age- and gender-matched control population (1-3 matching). The participants were on cross-sex hormone therapy for an average of 7.4 years. We assessed physical health and possible treatment-related adverse events using questionnaires.
RESULTS:
Five percent of trans women experienced venous thrombosis and/or pulmonary embolism during hormone therapy. Five of these adverse events occurred during the first year of treatment, while another three occurred during sex reassignment surgery. Trans women experienced more myocardial infarctions than the control women (P=0.001), but a similar proportion compared with control men. The prevalence of cerebrovascular disease (CVD) was higher in trans women than in the control men (P=0.03). The rates of myocardial infarction and CVD in trans men were similar to the control male and female subjects. The prevalence of type 2 diabetes was higher in both trans men and women than in their respective controls, whereas the rates of cancer were similar compared with the control men and women.
CONCLUSION:
Morbidity rate during cross-sex hormone therapy was relatively low, especially in trans men. We observed a higher prevalence of venous thrombosis, myocardial infarction, CVD, and type 2 diabetes in trans women than in the control population. Morbidity rates in trans men and controls were similar, with the exception of the increased prevalence of type 2 diabetes.
Canāt believe Iāve read all this damn lol
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Lets recap here so @dbossa doesnāt come back and try to confuse everyone. I have posted 3 pieces of literature:
#1 Literature showing anabolic steroid use for a duration of more than 2 years increases your risk of stroke or heart attack
#2 High testosterone levels are associated with myocardial infarction in older men
#3 High estrogen levels due to hormone therapy in men are associated with increased chance of blood clots and type 2 diabetes
Everything points in one direction, supraphysiological levels of sex hormones increases risk factors for disease just as hormone deficiency does.
Dam @increasemyt you look pretty dialed in to me. These are some nice TRT numbers. Congrats man.
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After all those information, Iām really concerned and confused on how to tackle this. Hope to start next week; no help from any doctors, and the dilemma is how much T. everyday. Biggest concern would be acne.
Plan on 12-15mg T. Enanthate ED IM, without HCG and AI. Some say the first week should be ekstra dosing, but I donāt have a clue.
Regarding Estrogen, Iām not scared. Agree with most posts - not about numbers, but how you feel after those 6-8 weeks.
I wouldnāt even think twice about this thread if I was just starting TRT. Remember the context we are talking about, men using supra-physiological levels of androgens and estrogens for years on end.
Even with the high dosage MTF transgender treatment therapy the number of incidence was relatively small, around 15 people out of 1,000.
But we donāt know what is going to happen to these people 20 years down the road, we also do not know if using androgens and estrogens together would make it worse, but we can assume it does because of the study on people using steroids.
My point is, for this to be an issue you have to keep your levels above physiological range for years and years, which is what @dbossa is suggesting.
Getting your lab work done every 6-8 months and keeping levels from skyrocketing will prevent this.
So with TRT there is no worry, and in fact the literature shows the opposite when levels are kept within physiological range, that the cardio vascular system is impacted positively.
Hope that makes sense.
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Also, do we really know its safe for people to use doses brining them to 3000ng/dl total T and 30-50 free T? I mean, thats what some bodybuilders use, do we have any long term studies on such doses?
I actually dont know what to believe here. The studies increasemyt posted is legit, so what gives? Dbossa I like what you say, but you seem to get so god damn upset all the time, very emotional, I do not know why. As of right now, it would be interesting to hear you tackle the actual studies posted instead of just calling him low intelligence and an idiot.
My total T is the same (500-600). Iām symptomatic. Last free t was 17 ng/L EIA Range 8-22
Anyone can pull studies to make their point. Many many studies out there. Some studies are irrelevant to TRT users. Some studies are biased. Some use men with underlying conditions etc. it takes a lot of time to go through the studies and to analyze properly. So to throw out a study and say I got you us ludicrous.
This is a forum with NO expert. You listen to peopleās opinion , educate yourself , and discuss with your doctor.
Over time you may feel comfortable taking the advice of particular people and give it more weight. But look i did that with Ksman in here and it was the worst thing I could do. I learn.
Also, I also take some issue with keeping men as they age with high free t. The life expectancy of men is low 80s, are these men all high t?? I donāt think so. I would like to live to 80 and beyond too.
Are the bodies organs equipped to handle high testosterone as these organs age?
No one knows. My hunch is No.