Gironda is/was the man for pec training, look his stuff up.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
Anyways. If I were shooting solely for chest size, I’d probably stick with BB incline and db bench (flat and incline) as my main chest movements, obviously with pec deck/db flies/cable flies as assistance work. [/quote]
I’ve taken a similar approach over the years. I can get a decent amount of upper pec mass from the barbell on incline work, but if I focus on bar work with a flat bench, my delts and arms just dominate. As 'E" pointed out, there are a lot of folks in gyms with heavy bench press numbers, albeit sporting weak looking pecs. I was definitely one of them, throwing up 385 for a few reps on a flat, but looking nothing like the bodybuilder I thought I would once my weights got ‘respectable’.
While there will always be trainers who can do nothing but flat barbell work and develop large and proportionate chests, I’ve found that the number of folks that this doesn’t work for is definitely in the majority.
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
Anyways. If I were shooting solely for chest size, I’d probably stick with BB incline and db bench (flat and incline) as my main chest movements, obviously with pec deck/db flies/cable flies as assistance work. [/quote]
While there will always be trainers who can do nothing but flat barbell work and develop large and proportionate chests, I’ve found that the number of folks that this doesn’t work for is definitely in the majority.
S
[/quote]
x2
majority of folks isn’t on “wide claviculae a/o chest dominant” crew…they have to find a way to develop chest not delt&tris…
Just throwing this out there to anyone who answered already: Would your advice be the same for a teenage beginner who’s, say, 5’8" and 150 pounds?
At that level of inexperience, I believe they need to spend some time working with both exercises (not necessarily in the same workout) to learn/see/feel exactly what’s what.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Just throwing this out there to anyone who answered already: Would your advice be the same for a teenage beginner who’s, say, 5’8" and 150 pounds?
At that level of inexperience, I believe they need to spend some time working with both exercises (not necessarily in the same workout) to learn/see/feel exactly what’s what.[/quote]
Very good point. At the onset of training, I feel that there must be a priority on developing a certain level of not only strength, but body awareness before getting too worried about minutiae. As such, simply moving a heavy resistance through space can be quite an adaptation to a young, inactive individual. Making use of any method of applying resistance would produce a degree of gains in both strength and size (at least as much as genetics and diet allow of course).
If someone is fortunate enough to understand, (whether innately or even unintentionally) the need for executing the movements with target muscles and not just going from A to B by any means necessary, then the results will reflect it.
S
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Just throwing this out there to anyone who answered already: Would your advice be the same for a teenage beginner who’s, say, 5’8" and 150 pounds?
At that level of inexperience, I believe they need to spend some time working with both exercises (not necessarily in the same workout) to learn/see/feel exactly what’s what.[/quote]
Personally, I think this individual (and anyone else looking to grow as much as possible) would be better served with barbell exercises. Even if it doesn’t necessarily target chest as much as DB bench, BB bench allows for more weight to be used which will grow this individual more.
I would say this person need to put mass on all over, and not worry about delts/tris overpowering chest on this movement.
Your thoughts?
I am puzzled as to how you can suggest that good old fashioned bench doesn’t do a good job at adding chest mass relative to DB bench??? The exercise is great, it just stops adding mass when you train like a idiot and always try to hit a 1RM! If you train this exercise with good volume at a reasonable load then you can get an insane chest from nothing but bench! I have something like 48inch chest at 5’7 and I do nothing but bench! (I am a powerlifter) Sooo don’t ever say that DB bench is better, no doubt it is a useful exercise but it most certainly is not better!
I found once I learned how to bench like a tight arch, less ROM for shoulder, it became a good chest exercise IMO. If you’re using a moderate arch, it turns it into a low-decline press kind of, and for me, removes some of my shoulders’ dominance, and gives me a solid chest pump. This could be just me though.
DB’s are a pain in the ass to stabilize, and sometimes I miss reps due to balance, not actual muscular failure. I have started to like rest-pausing DB pressing, though. Seems to allow easier progression for whatever reason.
Summary: I’d say maybe you should adjust your form a bit, and just do BOTH exercises instead of debating which one is better. Once you lift for a long time, you’ll probably figure out which one is ‘better’ for you.
Based on my collection of anecdotal observations I don’t think the Barbell Bench press builds a good looking chest.
Why not include both?
[quote]iVoodoo wrote:
Why not include both?
[/quote]
Agree
Superior muscle hypertrophy will be the result of including both forms of benchpress IMO. Barbell for heavy work followed by dumbbells for an extra stretch and longer ROM.
Choosing only one is an inferior method of training IMO.
[quote]iVoodoo wrote:
Why not include both?
[/quote]
Too much common sense.
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Just throwing this out there to anyone who answered already: Would your advice be the same for a teenage beginner who’s, say, 5’8" and 150 pounds?
At that level of inexperience, I believe they need to spend some time working with both exercises (not necessarily in the same workout) to learn/see/feel exactly what’s what.[/quote]
Personally, I think this individual (and anyone else looking to grow as much as possible) would be better served with barbell exercises. Even if it doesn’t necessarily target chest as much as DB bench, BB bench allows for more weight to be used which will grow this individual more.
I would say this person need to put mass on all over, and not worry about delts/tris overpowering chest on this movement.
Your thoughts?[/quote]
I do agree that beginners should develop experience with the barbell bench press. Like Stu was saying, a lot of fundamental progress can be seen just by getting familiar with that basic movement pattern, and progress can be squeezed from that exercise for a while until it’s appropriate to introduce variations/alternatives like the dumbbell press.
This is a great topic in general, and some experienced guys have chimed in some very useful info. But I felt it was important to point out that the OP who asked the question in the first place is, according to his profile, a 5’8" 150-pound 18-year old dude with one year of training experience, so he’s most likely reading these answers as it relates to him. And that’s different than how a more experienced and.or developed lifter should look at training with barbells vs dumbbells.
no way, for a young/skinny dude barbell all the way…just learning the correct path (with overloads of course LOL) he 'll grow,also machines for a question of safety.
my former coach used to tell that training protocol doesn’t really count during first two years of training (high scholl age) because hormones’ high levels plus a basic overload make easy gains (if one over-eat), problems start after that time LOL