fitnforty=squat425???
Truet is on the money…I just wished I’d acquired that logic twenty years ago. I’m a 400+ bencher at a previous weight of 164 (no shirt, no drugs). And what did it earn me? Two full supraspinatus tears.
Not much help for you if you’re planning on entering powerlifting meets. Train to the chest or find a new hobby. But in the real world, Truet’s info is “spot on.” No real world applications involve developing power out of the position which demands strength in the “stretched capsule” position. Full-range motions like punching and throwing involve the development of speed for the the first 1/3 to 2/3 of the motion, and then power for the final third. Even in contact sports like football (lineman, for example), most true power generates from the arm-extended positions. Imagine pushing a car up an incline…would you start with the car’s bumper at your chest?
As far as the ROM arguments, the ROM is subject to change, isn’t it? If we’re unnaturally forcing a muscle into a “deeper than nature intended” position, is that natural? From my own empirical observations, changing the ROM to one that begins a few inches off my chest has made no difference. Two years ago I started benching off power rack pins, using wooden blocks to adjust the Hammer machines’ ROM, etc., and I’ll be damned if my chest shows the difference. Oh, yeah…and I now weigh 190 versus the 165 I weighed when I was blasting through full-ROM (most of the difference being muscle). My punch (in Martial Arts) is also much stronger. But perhaps even more importantly, I no longer plan my cycles around the 3-month-injury-recuperation periods I used to endure.
Just an observation…
Oh shit. This is gonna be fun. Lets see saturday i did 515 plus green bands on 1 inch below parallel box squats. This is roughly 665 at the top. Today i did 435 with a manta ray on a 3inch below parallel box. Hows that fitandforty. Why would you want to run when you can drive?
Ada-Who the hell are you? Point out to me one instance where i was on my “high horse” and i wasnt joking on somebody. Ask anybody who knows me. Anybody. If they say im strong, i say thanks but im not that strong, there are plenty of people stronger than me. If people say im big, i say thanks but there are people who are way bigger than me. If somebody says im smart, i say thanks, but there are many who know more than me. I have about five people per week who PM me about training and other issues. I help these people out as much as i can. I usually give them my aol screenname so they can talk to me personally instead of swapping PMs. Ask the girl who i helped learn to squat at the gym today. Ask the guy at the gym who wanted to learn to do the whole westside routine at my gym and i helped him out. I even gave him a pair of chuck taylors and a miniband. Really sounds like im on a “high horse” huh? If you ask a stupid question i am going to make fun of you. But then again there are no stupid questions, only stupid people who ask questions.
Great post Truet…nice to see an intelligent answer to a very important question. Some of the other responses belong in Flex Magazine.
cant bench or run fast, damn…
And why in the hell would i care if you ran or not? What the fuck does that have to do with not being able to touch a damn bar to your chest. Ive been lifting for 12 years in many different gyms and i have never seen anything like this. Thats why i have a very hard time believing it. Maybe if you quit running you can weigh more than 150 lbs.
What? Other responses belong in flex magazine? Ok, if my body can do it you can be sure I’ll try it. One of the most devastating things you can do is not push it through the full ROM because you will over strengthen one part of the muscle while under developing the rest. Ok, I can understand and accept box squats and other training that is specific to the sport. But lifting big for whole 3-4 inches on a bench isn’t going to accomplish much. Also this whole avoid the injury BS is wrong. I ripped my rotator cuff, anterior delt, and anterior head snowboarding. For a long time I avoided military presses as they hurt, but guess what? I can military press almost as much as I can bench now because I pushed it just enough to grow and become stronger. In fact it never hurts anymore! Now this isn’t always going to work but you can’t just say, “Oh I’m old and this was hurt too badly so lets just not use it again for the rest of my fucking life.”
Oh, boy…
“One of the most devastating things you can do is not push it through the full ROM because you will over strengthen one part of the muscle while under developing the rest”: Got any studies to prove that? And besides, what we’re talking about isn’t really a matter of ROM for the pectorals. We’re talking about not inducing a dangerous, loaded stretch on your shoulder capsule. Does performing that stretch elicit a greater ROM on the pecs? Maybe. Is that small amount worth the risk? I’d vote no, and would bet that the amount of extra growth you’d generate over your lifting lifetime would be miniscule.
“But lifting big for whole 3-4 inches on a bench isn’t going to accomplish much”: Again, depends on your goals. Will it make you a better powerlifting bencher? Nope. Will it make you more functionally (i.e. sports-related) strong. You bet.
“Also this whole avoid the injury BS is wrong. I ripped my rotator cuff, anterior delt, and anterior head snowboarding. For a long time I avoided military presses as they hurt, but guess what? I can military press almost as much as I can bench now because I pushed it just enough to grow and become stronger. In fact it never hurts anymore!”: I applaud your persistence. But to extend the analogy, why didn’t you do arms-wide, barbell presses behind the neck to fully develop your injured delts and rotators. After all, that would represent a much greater ROM, no? The fact that you didn’t means you’re exhibiting the same logic. Work the muscle, but not through a dangerous range.
“Oh I’m old and this was hurt too badly so lets just not use it again for the rest of my fucking life.”: Did anyone actually say that? Yes, I’m old (dammit!). Yes, I was hurt badly. But I would bet I’ve done more rehab and rebuilding than you could imagine. And, despite the prognostication of my doctor, I’m still lifting heavy and practicing full-contact Martial Arts. I just do it a bit smarter, including avoiding specific motions that aggravate my injuries and/or set me up for future problems.
i dont believe this guy is a powerlifter and i dont believe that he has shoulder problems.
So you’re telling me…even with an unloading bar or hell, even some dimes you can’t touch your chest???
a) either you can and you are lying or never have due to your brain not your body
or
b) you have the weakest low/beginning range bench press in the history of mankind
I’m going to go with a). You simply choose not to go all the way down. If you can do a full push up I see no reason why you couldn’t do a full range bench rep with just a bar. It is not a flexibility issue. Drop the weight and stop wasting people’s time.
And Goldie get of your friggin high horse already.
I did drop the weight and had no trouble with ROM. It is probably a mental thing.
lmao this is funny