[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
[quote]goochadamg wrote:
[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
This is kind of a follow on to a thread on BSL forums not too long ago about “what constitutes strong” and is something I’ve been thinking a lot about as I start to set specific goals for the big 30.
What kind of performance figures would you expect to consider someone either intermediate or advanced?
The list can be anything, including, but not limited to:
O-Lifts
Powerlifts
Bodyweight exercises
5k time
etc.[/quote]
Lots of guys on these boards do sports and aren’t necessarily leaning towards PLing, OLing, BBing or anything like that. I like Dan John’s standards here: Figuring Out Your Life and Lifting Goals
When the game changer standards are reached, I personally see no need to go past them, and I feel the trainee has essentially reached the top end of the intermediate bracket. What pushes them into advanced bracket is maintaining the weight room performance with minimal interference to the other athletic demands of the sport. I’m talking about reaching the standards
I do judo and I need to be fit. In practice we do lots of pushups, running, agility drills, etc. and after all that picking someone up has to be easy. With all the cardio maintaining a 2xBW deadlift is easy in the weight room while increasing the weight is very difficult, but even maintaining strength I feel tight and slow sometimes in practice. I need to work on speed and mobility in movements that are very specific to judo while maintaining strength to bring my game up and reach what I consider advanced. Boxers and football players have other skills to work on.
Im just saying, a powerlifter that deadlifts 2xbw is not advanced. But a fighter that excels in his sport that deadlifts 2xBW is advanced for what they are doing because they have an entire other arena of training on their plate. In these discussions of standards, PLing and OLing always get brought up but it should be clarified that as sports, the weight training for PLing and OLing is so similar to the competitive events, but this is not the case in other sports
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You do make a good point. However, outside the context of specific sports, and instead taking into account the general population, it of course makes sense that those who specifically practice and specialize in strength training (e.g. powerlifting or weightlifting) will be stronger than those who do not (e.g. a boxer). And that’s what is up for discussion: what’s strong. There’s a specific lack of qualification on that.[/quote]
The original discussion on BSL was “what is strong?” Now we’re on “when is someone advanced or intermediate”.
The general population that works out wants to look good naked and little else. There are no strength standards to differentiate between intermediate and advanced for them, it all comes down to how they look. And since what these trainees are doing is essentially pretending to be bodybuilders, you could say none of them are advanced. The only advanced trainees in this context would be those that could hold their own on a stage. I might be splitting hairs a little here, but basically the stereotypical guy doing benchpress and curls and abs doesn’t a chance on the stage
It might sound elitist but I’m thinking intermediate and advanced are useless qualifiers for the “general population” because their goals are poorly defined. YOu could use intermediate and advanced for anyone that has clear goals though, which basically means athletes (including bodybuilders), no matter what level of seriousness they are at. The sport will always define goals in the gym for them. And it’s different for every sport. Its not that unusual either, there’s lots of amateur athletes out there: lots of guys in all different martial arts, crossfit, adult recreational football, soccer, basketball, amateur bodybuilding, mens physique competition, etc., these are the people I’m speaking for
[/quote]
You’re right. What is strong for a martial artist will be different from what is strong for a crossfitter, which will again be different from what is strong for an adult recreational football player. I really have no idea what these numbers are.
I do have an idea of what is strong for the gym population as a whole, and that is described in a previous post. This does, of course, favor those who specifically practice strength training, but that is exactly how it should be. Those who practice playing soccer will be good at soccer. Those who train in martial arts will excel there. Those who train for strength will be strong.