The next time my girlfriend accuses me of being moody, I can tell her “it’s not me - it’s my poor leucine clearance acting up again!”
[quote]Peter Orban wrote:
He’s not crazy:
Tryptophan is a precursor to serotonin and tyrosine for dopamine. These are both neutral amino acids, as are BCAAs. They compete for the same transport system. It seems that some people preferentially uptake leucine.
While the concentrations of the plasma amino acid pool are relatively stable in most people most of the time, the actual concentrations vary greatly between subjects due to genetic factors which affect the metabolism and transport (not just in the brain, but throughout the whole system).[/quote]
[quote]Ty Carlson wrote:
Read Thibs and Waterbury’s thoughts in the BCAA article in the store…I think they were both megadosing BCAA’s with themselves or clients for a while.[/quote]
Right around the time Biotest started selling them.[/quote]
yeah i think they were recommending 45 grams per session, as was poliquin…
i’ve never had enough cash to try it out but i was wondering has anyone done so? results?
[quote]juverulez wrote:
haha, I dunno about drug like effects but I can tell you that BCAA lower dopamine levels and possibly seratonin. From personal experience that equals to bad times [/quote]
Wrong. You probably got anxiety/depression from low blood glucose levels. Leucine acts somewhat like insulin in terms of robbing your blood glucose. If you are lower carbs and megadose BCAA’s/leucine then there is a good possibility that you will go hypoglycemic, which has a side effect of jitters, anxiety, depression and low energy. Eat some carbs with it.[/quote]
Right I am afraid. I always had at least 30 grams of CHO per 5 grams of leucine. I know it is not hypo because I pulled some in the past (yeah, leucine megadosing) and it is nothing like it. I am glad that it works for some of you and tbh would love to figure out a way to throw all those aminos back in my regimen but it looks like I am gonna to save myself some $ and mood disorders at the same time. FWIW, I am not the only freak of nature with this type of reaction, there have been human studies proving that a mere dose of 10 grams of BCAA causes a drop in dopamine in healthy human subjects.[/quote]
Interesting, friend. Do you know that it’s from the leucine for sure or could it be from the isoleucine or valine?
[/quote]
It’s hard to say… Theoretically, all BCAAs compete with tryptophan and tyrosine for the same amino carrier. I definitely felt the ill effects with leucine (2.5-15 gms around the workout, 15 gms=unbearable sides) but was also affected by EAAs and BCAAs. I was using tyrosine in the mornings and tryptophan in the evening to replenish my neurotransmitter levels but despite that my life was misery- I wouldn’t feel 100% till the morning the day after my workout and that’s only when my body was still able to perform tyrosine hydroxylase (tyrosine needs to be cycled so that your receptors don’t downregulate)
I was wondering about doing an experiment with a sort of BCAA megadose.
Basically what I thought up was that since BCAAs spare your muscles during exercise, would doing extended LISS, in my case weighted walking/hiking, enable one to ‘attack’ their fat while sparing their muscle. The longer one does LISS the more fat they use for fuel(unless I’m incorrect on this), and then if someone were to go do a form of LISS for multiple hours, this would be better for fat burning. I’m sure cortisol might become an issue but I suppose one could take a certain dose of glycine to keep this in check perhaps?
I remembering watching/reading about this guy who was swimming for an extended period, and he ended up losing like 14 lbs of weight over the course of 10+ hours.(Obviously it wasn’t all fat)
There’s a small discussion about it here http://caloriecount.about.com/max-amount-body-fat-ft85083
and the google search
Thoughts? I wouldn’t mind hearing some people’s input into if this is feasible or not.
BBB, MODOK, Stronghold, C6H13NO2, Ghost22, h4r, Peter Orban?
@MattyG35
First off, I would not use glycine in this way. It can work for some people as part of a low-carb gluconeogenic amino acid mix. But I suspect that you may be better off simply going with something like Mag10 or even whey. If you want to use it to wind down as CT describes elsewhere, that also works well, but most people will have to build up the dose as glycine can be tricky.
People can definitely lose up to 10 pounds a month with little lean tissue loss or none. I have seen it done many a time with a low-carb diet, 3-4 weight training sessions and a few sprint sessions. No need to kill oneself, also you can still have a few cheat meals during the week to stay sane, cutting booze to 2 drinks once a week works wonders too.
If you were to overdo the walking, you would probably hurt your rate of fat loss. And more than 10g of leucine would likely not lead to additional benefits, you would be off better using it during your workout or added to meals/in between meals depending on how cute you want to get.
I think he has the answers you are looking for about the amount of walking. If you really want to push it, you would be better off adding another session or 2 later in the day, unloaded. I think you might be surprised how good this works. I usually do a 4-6 mile walk in the morning and on days I don’t do any lifting or sprinting another one at night. Sometimes I only do 3 miles. I suspect this first 3 is probably the most important.
As for the diet, don’t over-think it or try to go too low, I actually use maintenance calories to start with clients and drop a meal on non-training days or replace with a mostly protein shake. This is usually enough to get a significant response. Though it is hard to generalize dietary advice since everyone has different schedules and relationships that will impact ability to maintain consistency.
I’d rather hang on to my LBM and mildy reduce the effectiveness of the cardio than lose LBM. I don’t think BCAAs(5-10g) are going to be as inhibiting as you think. But I guess I’ll just have to try this to find out.
UPDATE (if anyone cares, I do not know): I have continued to bump up the BCAA dose, bringing it in over 100g/day without affect on mood.
My protocol has been one pulse mid-morning, and then two post workout (having ingested CHO and PRO pre-workout).
I am loving this protocol so far, though might split up the pulses.
There are a few too many variables at play, so I will have to continue this protocol for at least a month to see its effects independent of other supplements, training, and nutrition alterations.
@MID: Interesting, will like to see your synopsis.
@Bushy: No, thank you. Glad to finally have info flowing in the other direction. I wouldn’t mind your input on my CoQ10 vs. ubiquinol question in this thread
juverulez’s post triggered a flashback to my nutritional biochemistry class over a decade ago. Right away I had my prof in my head talking about the competition between large neutral amino acids for transporters. I busted open my text Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism, 3rd Edition - 5th is available now: http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Nutrition-Human-Metabolism-ebook/dp/B002L6GJE2
here is one of the more interesting studies related to this:
The Kinetics of Amino Acid Absorption and Alteration of Plasma Composition of Free Amino Acids After Intestinal Perfusion of Amino Acid Mixtures
[quote]midnightamnesia wrote:
My protocol has been one pulse mid-morning, and then two post workout (having ingested CHO and PRO pre-workout).
MID[/quote]
[quote]midnightamnesia wrote:
My protocol has been one pulse mid-morning, and then two post workout (having ingested CHO and PRO pre-workout).
MID[/quote]
so approx. 33 gram pulses 3x per day?
what benefits are you notcing?[/quote]
It is 3X35g pluses/day.
As I noted, there are a few too many variables to show that my results are due to this protocol, alone. It can certainly be said, though, that following this protocol I have seen significant increases in muscle fullness, muscle retention or even growth (I am currently heavily dieting), recovery (I have been able to increase both my volume and frequency), and energy.
When all variables are controlled and fewer are present, I will be able to comment on the effectiveness of this protocol more accurately.
[quote]tolismann wrote:
Anybody ever tried not using BCAAs or PeptoPro or Casein Hydro peri-WO?
What were the results? Shitty workouts? Not enough recovery? Muscle loss?[/quote]
Good point. Nothing trumps food. If I wasn’t working out first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and then proceeding to fast for another six hours, I wouldn’t take any of this shit.
[quote]midnightamnesia wrote:
My protocol has been one pulse mid-morning, and then two post workout (having ingested CHO and PRO pre-workout).
MID[/quote]
so approx. 33 gram pulses 3x per day?
what benefits are you notcing?[/quote]
It is 3X35g pluses/day.
As I noted, there are a few too many variables to show that my results are due to this protocol, alone. It can certainly be said, though, that following this protocol I have seen significant increases in muscle fullness, muscle retention or even growth (I am currently heavily dieting), recovery (I have been able to increase both my volume and frequency), and energy.
When all variables are controlled and fewer are present, I will be able to comment on the effectiveness of this protocol more accurately.
MID[/quote]
Well, it’s been about a month is your protocol working? If so be specific.
I don’t see the point of BCAAs at all. I thought all the BCAAs you could ever want would be in a protein shake?
Why not just drink loads of protein shakes throughout the day instead?
Also I was under the impression that mega dosing BCAAs was another one of Poliquins scams. If you followed his protocol of using 40 grams a day of his product for a year, he would end up stealing 1580 euro from you. Absolutely crazy.
Anyone using Ajinomoto BCAAs? Wondered whether such a rapidly absorbed product could potentially trump hydrolysed whey/casein formulas? Just a thought.
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
Anyone using Ajinomoto BCAAs? Wondered whether such a rapidly absorbed product could potentially trump hydrolysed whey/casein formulas? Just a thought.[/quote]
Excellent product.
Mixes very well with water.
I’ve even megadosed it (by accident), had a few sips while lifting, and did not feel bloated at all.
