Hey fellas just wondering. Between bbb and bbs @ fsl. Is there any difference at all given that it’s the same amount of total volume or Is one catered towards size/strenght more than the other? For those that have done both which one did you feel worked best for each of the main lifts?
I like BBS better, you have 5 perfect reps every set. BBB you could end up trying to finish the set quickly and the last couple reps wont be like the first couple.
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That’s makes sense I cant imagine bar speed beeing the same for all 5x10 unless it was a very low tm.
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BBS is a great template if you’re not pushed for time. It lets you ramp the intensity up better than BBB, but splitting those 50 reps into 10 sets takes a good deal more time than BBB .
I’d suggest running a cycle or 2 of Pervertor because it has both, and you’ll be able to see for yourself. I actually am starting to fall more in line with Jim’s preference for 5x5fsl (or slightly heavier than fsl actually). It’s plenty of volume and again allows for more intensity.
Jim says in Forever that 5x5 fsl is his preferred supplemental scheme for most people these days.
I see I’ve already done 1000% awesome which has 5x5s kinda stalling with lifts tho and want to try more volume to see if it will help me wich is why I’m looking into these templates . I see that on the recent boring but big beef cake he says 5x10 should be done withing 20 mins which would mean 4 minutes rest in between . I wonder how much rest times would be reasonable for 10x5 I have about 1 hr 30 mins to train each day.
Not familiar with 1000% awesome off the top of my head, but generally speaking, if you’re stalling out and already doing 8 working sets of 5 reps (3 work sets and 5 supplemental sets), volume probably isn’t your problem (unless you’re quite advanced). You probably need to eat and sleep more.
I wouldn’t suggest beefcake for your stated goal. That will require reducing your working loads to tolerate the extra volume and the short rest time will keep fatigue high (also necessitating lower intensity).
It´s not 4 minutes rest in between, it´s four minutes per cycle, which includes the time you spend on the 5 x 10. So it´s probably 3 minutes rest, in which you have to do the supersetted exercise as well.
Are you having trouble with your Main Work or with the 80-85% Supplemental Work in 1000% Awesome? I tried running 1000% Awesome with too high of a TM and it didn’t go well. If your missing reps its likely a TM issue, not a volume issue.
I have found that a 1-2 minute break between sets is usually pretty good. On the earlier sets I sometimes only break for 30 seconds. The key is to make sure that your recovered enough between sets to maintain your technique and bar speed.
No problems at all with 5x5 I have lowered my training maxes and have done the leaders anchors I recently have time to be able to workout 4 times a week so I wanted a change to another template . The reason is idk why but my squat and dl numbers are lacking while my bench ohp keep going up so atm my training maxes are 260/225/150/295 squat/bench/ohp/DL these would be something I can hit for 5-6 reps so 85% ish mind you i recall doing 225 for 8 on a test week a few weeks back . So I’m thinking maybe I need more squat and deadlift volume or some change because 8 sets 5s is apparantly inst working for me on squats and in 1000% awesome deadlift volume is only 5 pros .
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I ran both for the press and the bench, take these infos for what they are, more like my impressions, and keep in mind I ran both @FSL percentage:
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BBS has more sets but also less cumulative fatigue, which means you can keep your rest time fairly short through all 10 sets. As someone already mentioned, the first few sets could even be only 30-60 seconds of rest, then progressively increase rest time but it’s perfectly doable with <2 min rest per set;
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BBS also has more margin for supersetting stuff if you want to, i.e. I did 5 chins between each set, it didn’t take much out of recovery but it’s a great way to pile up some volume easily, especially if you superset other stuff too. I recall my press workout was along this line: press 5’s pro with band pull aparts or face pulls between sets (including warmup sets); press BBS superset with chins; pushing assistance superset with abs.
Whole thing took less than 1 hour, and I did the main work, the supplemental work, 50 chins, about 100 pull aparts, and whatever amount of pushing and core assistance you want to (usually I did 50-75 reps of each). -
you can superset stuff with BBB too (and I did), but it’s a bit harder to manage recovery and could grind you out, on the other hand I personally would suggest to reduce assistance stuff a bit, compared to BBS, when running BBB, and even better to scale back exercises towards less intensive choices - i.e. when running BBB I sticked to tricep pushdowns and lateral raises instead of dips and DB presses. Overall, total workout time can be more or less the same between BBS and BBB, on average a little longer for BBB for what I remember;
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sets of 5 in BBS are more suited to work on smooth reps, bar speed and perfecting technique, while BBB can easily have an element of brute force and grind to reps later in the sets. None of the two is inherently better than the other, both are useful in their own way. My upper body lifts are fairly weak, so I remember getting better results for the press from BBB than BBS, because the press itself is a lift that you’ll inevitably need to grind sooner or later, while the bench responded better to BBS and SSL than BBB;
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I’d guess (just a guess) the stronger you are, the more BBS shines in terms of balance between total volume, intensity, techinque work and recovery.
The 65-70-75% of your TM when you bench 200 pounds won’t have the same impact of the 65-70-75% of your TM when you bench 400 pounds. In the first case, you could probably get away doing either between BBS and BBB, and make good progress with both options without much thought. In the second case, BBS could easily be your best choice by still letting you to pile up a lot of volume (50 reps) with a significant weight while also working on technique and better/easier recovery management
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Thx for the detailed information this makes alot of sense I’m on vacation this week so when I come back I think I will do 2 leader 1 anchor of bbb then do 2 leader 1 anchor of bbs and see which one I respond to better to . I dont want to get stuck in my head with what if I have done this or that so I will try both . I think starting with bbb will make things much more manegable as the tm will be a bit higher as the cycles go by making it better for bbs .