[quote]The Killing Joke (argued by some as the greatest batman comic, yes better than DKR)
[/quote]
The Killing Joke is amazing for Joker fans! Forgot to mention that one, good call! I thought it was miles better than DKR, if a bit short.
Arkham Asylum: A Serious House On Serious Earth is excellent if you can cope with the strange presentation. Tough to get used to at first, but it grows on you.
To actually contribute to threadā¦
Even given wolverine being, like alot of people, one of my favorite heroes it still is an easy win for batman. The most likely way that this fight starts is wolverine going ballistic and killing some civilians or something, at which point batman catches wind of it and like others have said has time to plan a strategic attack, most likely one involving a large adamantium box which he tricks wolverine into walking in.
[quote]RTJenforcer wrote:
Itās true that Batman has huge resources at his disposal, but there is nothing in the comic book to support the idea that he has a limitless capacity to create whatever technology he needs at a given time.
Quite right, but I think Batmanās strength lies not in creating whatever he needs, but in having the intelligence and cunning to put his existing tools to use in the situation at hand, and exploring all possibilities before thinking about developing new technology.
[/quote]
I totally agree with what youāve said about Batman being more likely to improvise a strategy with existing technology rather than just pulling some random gadget out of his ass at the last minute (the former is totally in keeping with his character; the latter is just jumping the shark).
Itās just that a lot of the time people create biased scenarios where Wolverine is putty in Batmanās hands. And if you properly take into account the histories of both characters (retcons and all), thatās really downplaying Wolverineās fight experience while exaggerating Batmanās.
Of course, Loganās preferred method of combat is brutal and at close-quarters. But there is also plenty of evidence to support that Wolverine has more than enough tactical experience than to be simply be dismissed as some melee fighter who Batman can just toy with. Logan is more than capable of tactical fighting; he just generally chooses not to - he just loves to fight: itās as simple as that.
Also, you raised an excellent point earlier when you said:
[quote]
its interesting that sometimes writers tend to give Magneto vastly increased powers, whereas some early X-men
writers tend to give him power only over ferromagnetic metals[/quote]
I think the abilities of most comic book characters are dictated by how a given writer intends to use them - that includes Wolverine and Batman. All in all, itās probably safe to say that Wolverineās abilities fluctuate more than Batmanāsā¦
[quote]WolBarret wrote:
And another thing! Near unbreakable bones doesnāt make him unkillable. It just means his death will be long and painful.
If the Juggernaut, Hulk, Colossus, Thor, or Ben Grimm grabbed his ass by the neck and started [/quote]
Juggernaut and Thor have magic-based powers. Wolverine is faster than all of the above, bar Thor.
As a side note, Batman wouldnāt have a defense against opponents with magic-based powers, either.
[quote]WolBarret wrote:
rephore wrote:
Spiderman can beat Wolverine and has done it in the comics universe.
But I think Batman would beat Spiderman. Although Batman would get killed against Wolverine. Face it, in the DC universe there is no adamantium, so there is nothing strong enough to hurt Wolverine, although Punisher killed Wolverine by electricuting him (it was a comic where Punisher killed every hero).
Holy shit! You actually read comic books! Bravo, sir. My friend let me borrow the that Punisher What if. Capās death was just atrocious. The Hulk death was understandable.[/quote]
Hereās a āwhat ifā scenario worth talking about:
Who would win in a cage match between Vampire Batman and Zombie Wolverine?
[quote]Hereās a āwhat ifā scenario worth talking about:
Who would win in a cage match between Vampire Batman and Zombie Wolverine?
[/quote]
Haha! I think Iād have to go for zombie wolverine in that caseā¦
Would you rather live in The Xavier Mansion or Wayne Manor (both with accompanying subterranean complexes)?
[quote]roybot wrote:
artw wrote:
Batmanās dossiers are NOT the stuff of fanboys. Batman indeed does have a dossier on every member of the JLA with a detailed plan as to how to defeat each one of them based on all of their strengths and weaknesses. Batman knows the JLA members better than they know themselves. In fact, the files have detailed plans on how to KILL each member and Batman also has the āBrother Iā satellite system that permanently tracks each member just in case. This is all detailed in Crisis On Infinite Earths.
Because Wolverine is so dangerous, Batman would undoubtedly keep a file on him and be able to use this system to also track him, thus rendering Wolverineās super senses irrelevant and virtually eliminate any chance of a random encounter. Batman would probably also have a highly effective super-weapon built by WayneTech specifically to defeat Wolverine. Shit, heād probably develop his own Batsuit made of adamantium.
In Crisis On Infinite Earths, a team of superpowered aliens captures the entire JLA and Batman is the one who saves them all from certain death, using his superior wits and all of the weaponry and equipment at his disposal to do so. If he can do this, he can certainly defeat one mutant. This is why Superman calls Batman the worldās most dangerous man and tends to have a shaky relationship with the rest of the JLA.
Very well argued. But Batman keeping files on the JLA is not the same as having them on every hero in the DC universe (which is what I was wondering). That, along with Batman having to ability to create a weapon for every occasion, is the usual basis for Batman winning a grudge match against another hero.
Itās true that Batman has huge resources at his disposal, but there is nothing in the comic book to support the idea that he has a limitless capacity to create whatever technology he needs at a given time. That sort of thing is more the domain of the TV series, IMO. And all of it kept in a single utility belt, tooā¦
[/quote]
If there is something out there that Wolverine cannot cut through (the shit that Captain Americaās shield is made out of for instance) or there is some way to defeat Wolverine permanently or render his powers impotent, Batman is exactly the guy who will know what that is or how to go about doing it. Sure, his resources arenāt limitless, but theyāre pretty damn close and Iām sure Batman could get his hands on some adamantium, carbonadium or whatever it is that Cpt. Americaās shield is made out of. Adamantium canāt cut through carbonadium or that shield. Wolverine is also susceptible to toxins and alcohol especially.
[quote]RTJenforcer wrote:
Hereās a āwhat ifā scenario worth talking about:
Who would win in a cage match between Vampire Batman and Zombie Wolverine?
Haha! I think Iād have to go for zombie wolverine in that caseā¦
Would you rather live in The Xavier Mansion or Wayne Manor (both with accompanying subterranean complexes)?
[/quote]
Wayne Manor. Iād want to get a piece of that Robinās ass. Mmmmmgood.
You know, i didnt want to read through all these pages cuz i knew the stuff that would be said, but for the pages i glanced atā¦I really dont see how some of you are saying Easy win for batman.
Honestly, Yes it would be a good fight, and yes I honestly think Wolverine would win, tho Im not denying batmanās bad assness. I remember seeing a comic book a long time ago where Wolverine fought spiderman. In said comic book, Wolverine was too fast for Spidermanās spider sense. Spider man couldnt see anything coming. Now, all bias aside, thereās no way Batman could compete with that. A lot of you are saying Batman could have a huge elaborate plan and shit set up and counters and blah blah. Yea, Batman could have a crazy set upā¦if he rigged a fight, giving it a date/time/place. Ill give credit where itās due, batman is the shit and he could prolly be a pain in wolverineās ass, but seriously itās not fair to compare the twoā¦ Lol wolverine has gone toe to toe with the gods of the comic worlds solo and walked away. Batmanās craziest villain is aā¦a clown with daddy issues.
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
You know, i didnt want to read through all these pages cuz i knew the stuff that would be said, but for the pages i glanced atā¦I really dont see how some of you are saying Easy win for batman.
Honestly, Yes it would be a good fight, and yes I honestly think Wolverine would win, tho Im not denying batmanās bad assness. I remember seeing a comic book a long time ago where Wolverine fought spiderman. In said comic book, Wolverine was too fast for Spidermanās spider sense. Spider man couldnt see anything coming. Now, all bias aside, thereās no way Batman could compete with that. A lot of you are saying Batman could have a huge elaborate plan and shit set up and counters and blah blah. Yea, Batman could have a crazy set upā¦if he rigged a fight, giving it a date/time/place. Ill give credit where itās due, batman is the shit and he could prolly be a pain in wolverineās ass, but seriously itās not fair to compare the twoā¦ Lol wolverine has gone toe to toe with the gods of the comic worlds solo and walked away. Batmanās craziest villain is aā¦a clown with daddy issues.[/quote]
Good job, stepping straight into a discussion and immediately demonstrating without doubt that you know nothing about the subject matter. Troll much?
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
You know, i didnt want to read through all these pages cuz i knew the stuff that would be said, but for the pages i glanced atā¦I really dont see how some of you are saying Easy win for batman.
Honestly, Yes it would be a good fight, and yes I honestly think Wolverine would win, tho Im not denying batmanās bad assness. I remember seeing a comic book a long time ago where Wolverine fought spiderman. In said comic book, Wolverine was too fast for Spidermanās spider sense. Spider man couldnt see anything coming. Now, all bias aside, thereās no way Batman could compete with that. A lot of you are saying Batman could have a huge elaborate plan and shit set up and counters and blah blah. Yea, Batman could have a crazy set upā¦if he rigged a fight, giving it a date/time/place. Ill give credit where itās due, batman is the shit and he could prolly be a pain in wolverineās ass, but seriously itās not fair to compare the twoā¦ Lol wolverine has gone toe to toe with the gods of the comic worlds solo and walked away. Batmanās craziest villain is aā¦a clown with daddy issues.[/quote]
I suggest you read all the posts then get back to us.
[quote]The other Rob wrote:
Guy 1:
Unbreakable metal bones
6 foot long claws
Trained to be the ultimate killing machine
Healing factor that makes him almost completely unkillable
Super senses
Guy 2:
Martial art skills
Planning
Gadgets
I know who Iād bet on. Barring some way of stopping wolverine from healing or some kind of mind control I think Iād bet on him against anyone.
Anti-Wolverine spray would, of course, change things.[/quote]
Yep
[quote]TheBigV wrote:
The Hulk ripped wolverine in half and threw his legs up a mountain. Wolverines bones can be broken.
Wolverine isnāt much more than a really strong fighter (with sharp clawsā¦) who can take a hell of a lot of punishment.
I feel as thought a liquid nitrogen batarang would stop him cold in his tracks.
also, wolverine isnāt ridiculously strong. Toe to toe, batman would probably just get tired at some point, but that isnāt his style.
Youāre talking a guy who does all his fighting toe-to-toe and a guy who stealths in the shadows.[/quote]
According to the Marvel Universe years ago, Wolverine would be stronger. I think he could press above his head 1000lbs to a ton. He also has years of martial arts experience to go with all his other stuff.
He also has that enhanced sense thing. He would smell or hear Batman coming.
[quote]rephore wrote:
Spiderman can beat Wolverine and has done it in the comics universe.
But I think Batman would beat Spiderman. Although Batman would get killed against Wolverine. Face it, in the DC universe there is no adamantium, so there is nothing strong enough to hurt Wolverine, although Punisher killed Wolverine by electricuting him (it was a comic where Punisher killed every hero).
[/quote]
Spiderman is actually very strong and has a reaction time about 100x faster than the average person, which then would be measured in 1000ths of a second.
Mighty Mouse, HANDS DOWN!
You canāt kill a cartoon, and nobody, I mean NOBODY, can beat his singing voice.
[quote]artw wrote:
roybot wrote:
artw wrote:
Batmanās dossiers are NOT the stuff of fanboys. Batman indeed does have a dossier on every member of the JLA with a detailed plan as to how to defeat each one of them based on all of their strengths and weaknesses. Batman knows the JLA members better than they know themselves. In fact, the files have detailed plans on how to KILL each member and Batman also has the āBrother Iā satellite system that permanently tracks each member just in case. This is all detailed in Crisis On Infinite Earths.
Because Wolverine is so dangerous, Batman would undoubtedly keep a file on him and be able to use this system to also track him, thus rendering Wolverineās super senses irrelevant and virtually eliminate any chance of a random encounter. Batman would probably also have a highly effective super-weapon built by WayneTech specifically to defeat Wolverine. Shit, heād probably develop his own Batsuit made of adamantium.
In Crisis On Infinite Earths, a team of superpowered aliens captures the entire JLA and Batman is the one who saves them all from certain death, using his superior wits and all of the weaponry and equipment at his disposal to do so. If he can do this, he can certainly defeat one mutant. This is why Superman calls Batman the worldās most dangerous man and tends to have a shaky relationship with the rest of the JLA.
Very well argued. But Batman keeping files on the JLA is not the same as having them on every hero in the DC universe (which is what I was wondering). That, along with Batman having to ability to create a weapon for every occasion, is the usual basis for Batman winning a grudge match against another hero.
Itās true that Batman has huge resources at his disposal, but there is nothing in the comic book to support the idea that he has a limitless capacity to create whatever technology he needs at a given time. That sort of thing is more the domain of the TV series, IMO. And all of it kept in a single utility belt, tooā¦
If there is something out there that Wolverine cannot cut through (the shit that Captain Americaās shield is made out of for instance) or there is some way to defeat Wolverine permanently or render his powers impotent, Batman is exactly the guy who will know what that is or how to go about doing it. Sure, his resources arenāt limitless, but theyāre pretty damn close and Iām sure Batman could get his hands on some adamantium, carbonadium or whatever it is that Cpt. Americaās shield is made out of. Adamantium canāt cut through carbonadium or that shield. Wolverine is also susceptible to toxins and alcohol especially.[/quote]
Youāve just proven that you know very little about liāl old wolvy. The guy is nearly immune to pretty much any toxin and alcohol has very little effect on him at all, hence the heavy drinking and almost never getting drunk - and only then for very short periods.
Adamantium is pretty much unworkable and incredibly hard to get hold of (especially in any large amounts), so batman would have to rely on vibranium (the stuff Captain Americas shield is made of). Vibranium was created once by accident (sort of) and the key ingredient in making it has never been doscovered again. Basically batman has no weapon that can harm adamantium.
Wolverine is not a retarded thug, as I stated before the guy has been trained to be the ultimate killing machine, which includes tactics. I admit I havenāt read the comic where spidey beats wolverine, I may have to hunt that down but Iām betting in some way it relied upon the fact that spiderman has superhuman abilities - something that batman does not have. The guy has several lifetimes worth of accumulated combat knowledge and experience. That combined with his senses would help to foil pretty much any plan of batmans.
I have read of electicity being used to subdue wolverine, but it was part of a ridiculously elaborate trap (the series with havoc and the russian radiation dude - I really canāt remember the name) and he was basically strung up by 20 tazers. After subduing him it could be possible to chop him up and seperate the pieces, but I donāt think batman has it in him. If they ever met randomly batman would be fucked, or run away. If batman planned to capture wolverine then heād never actually kill him anyway and so of course wolverine would escape and finish the job.
Iām not sure about wolverine being killed by electricity as he has been shown to be able to survive the main blast of a nuclear explosion, I think it would depend on the writer and the story.
The only way I can see batman winning is if we take the version of wolverine with less insane regenerative abilities as he is sometimes written and have him ambushed by a batman that knows every detail about him, and has somehow acquired other characters weapons. Basically it all comes down to the scenario - Batman vs Wolverine just isnāt specific enough.
[quote]roybot wrote:
WolBarret wrote:
And another thing! Near unbreakable bones doesnāt make him unkillable. It just means his death will be long and painful.
If the Juggernaut, Hulk, Colossus, Thor, or Ben Grimm grabbed his ass by the neck and started
Juggernaut and Thor have magic-based powers. Wolverine is faster than all of the above, bar Thor.
As a side note, Batman wouldnāt have a defense against opponents with magic-based powers, either.
[/quote]
For the love of christ, dude.
Thor is a Asgardian. Asgardians are naturally faster, stronger, tougher, and healthier than a human being. A Asgardians like Sif or Balder are faster, stronger, and tougher than wolverine. Thor is the best out of the Asgardians, except maybe for Odin.
And you can look it up in the God Damn Marvel encyclopedia guide. And I donāt mean Marvel Wikia, I mean the fucking Encyclopedia that has the powers and abilities of every Marvel character.
JuggsāS abilities are so awesome, so Wolvie is fucked anyway. Without using hammer, Thor is a strong fucker anyway. The bastard can survive a nuclear blast. Even if you cut Thor, Wolverine wouldnāt be strong enough to make absolute killing blow. At that point, Thor tosses him into the sun.
And its not about fucking Magic, its simple logic. Certain characters can get hit with 100 tons worth of force and get up feeling fine. Most people canāt.
And you keep thinking Wolverine is THAT fast. Heās fast, but not the fastest fighter ever. All he does is get in your face, takes a bullet, and then goes for a kill shot. His kill shots against the people are named will not finish them off. Theyāll take the hit, get pissed, and then smash that bitch into the ground.
[quote]The other Rob wrote:
Youāve just proven that you know very little about liāl old wolvy. The guy is nearly immune to pretty much any toxin and alcohol has very little effect on him at all, hence the heavy drinking and almost never getting drunk - and only then for very short periods.
Adamantium is pretty much unworkable and incredibly hard to get hold of (especially in any large amounts), so batman would have to rely on vibranium (the stuff Captain Americas shield is made of). Vibranium was created once by accident (sort of) and the key ingredient in making it has never been doscovered again. Basically batman has no weapon that can harm adamantium.
Wolverine is not a retarded thug, as I stated before the guy has been trained to be the ultimate killing machine, which includes tactics. I admit I havenāt read the comic where spidey beats wolverine, I may have to hunt that down but Iām betting in some way it relied upon the fact that spiderman has superhuman abilities - something that batman does not have. The guy has several lifetimes worth of accumulated combat knowledge and experience. That combined with his senses would help to foil pretty much any plan of batmans.
I have read of electicity being used to subdue wolverine, but it was part of a ridiculously elaborate trap (the series with havoc and the russian radiation dude - I really canāt remember the name) and he was basically strung up by 20 tazers. After subduing him it could be possible to chop him up and seperate the pieces, but I donāt think batman has it in him. If they ever met randomly batman would be fucked, or run away. If batman planned to capture wolverine then heād never actually kill him anyway and so of course wolverine would escape and finish the job.
Iām not sure about wolverine being killed by electricity as he has been shown to be able to survive the main blast of a nuclear explosion, I think it would depend on the writer and the story.
The only way I can see batman winning is if we take the version of wolverine with less insane regenerative abilities as he is sometimes written and have him ambushed by a batman that knows every detail about him, and has somehow acquired other characters weapons. Basically it all comes down to the scenario - Batman vs Wolverine just isnāt specific enough.[/quote]
Iād add that Wolverine has beaten quite a few opponents in possession of adamantium, carbonadium, vibranium, etc: Omega Red, Lady Deathstrike and Cyber are a few examples. Having those materials doesnāt guarantee a victory. If Batman thinks he can gather enough of the stuff to make a battle suit - well, I wish him the best of luck. A couple of darts arenāt going to do it.
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
WolBarret wrote:
roybot wrote:
WolBarret wrote:
The other Rob wrote:
Guy 1:
Unbreakable metal bones
6 foot long claws
Trained to be the ultimate killing machine
Healing factor that makes him almost completely unkillable
Super senses
-Breakable bones covered in Adamantium. bones are infused with adamantium, rendering them unbreakable.
-Trained to be a killing machine, but heās never been the best fighter or most tactical.Ruthless killer. Prolonged life span means he has far more fighting experience than spoiled little rich kid Bruce Wayne (who refuses to kill out of principle). Wolverine is so badass that he trained as a samurai then got bored and became a lumberjack.
-Healing factor that does nothing to resist knock out gas, suffocation, heart attacks, or sudden mental trauma. Wolverineās healing factor renders him immune to poisons (including knock out gas). Suffocation, heart attacks, or sudden mental trauma are a non-issue because Batman is even more vulnerable to them. Also, it doesnāt help him resist getting knockout with a well placed punch or kick. He can be knocked out.
So can Batman. And far more easily than Wolverine.
-Super senses including heightened sense of smell; effectively an early warning system.
Guy 2: Martial art skills Moot point. Even if Bats was the better fighter, he couldnāt go toe-to-toe with Wolverine because of Loganās mutation.
Planning Limited. Wolverine is unpredictable, with more than enough experience to give Batman a few problems.
Gadgets Only as good as his tacticsā¦
-One of the best, if not the best fighter, warrior, and tactician in the DC universe
-Master Tactician. MASTER!
Batman is the superior combatant and tactician, but Wolverineās life experience definitely factors into this.
-Has an entire company dedicated to creating his gadgets and developing them to take out villains from Joker to Clay Face to Darkseid Cheat! Can I bring the X-Men in on the act?
I know who Iād bet on. Barring some way of stopping wolverine from healing or some kind of mind control Paging Xavierā¦ I think Iād bet on him against anyone.
Anti-Wolverine spray would, of course, change things.
Spider-Man vs Wolverine: Wolvie gets owned and webbed up hanging from a street light.
Wolverine slices off Spideyās arms and rams his camera up his ass, then takes a few snaps mails them to J. Jonah Jameson. Jameson grumbles about the photos being too dark and fires Peter Parker; Parker spends the rest of his life being spoon-fed by Aunt May. Justice is served.
Youāre wrong. Plain and simple. You tried pissing me off, but it didnāt work.
Hopefully the picture came up: As soon as this happens, Wolverine is dead in the water. Spidey is too fast, too strong, too smart, and too witty for Logan.
What? Spidey is not stronger than wolverine. No fucking way.
Faster maybe, if he uses his webs.
Spidey is definitely not wittier. Spidey is a fucking kid that fights are guy who likes pumpkins and paints his face green.
Wolverine fucking fought wars and has decades and centuries of experience.
Wolverine is like Patton.
[/quote]
Look, Wolverine could pick up 800lbs at best. Spider-man picks up vehicles on the regular. He has 15 tons worth of strength. Meaning he will toss Wolverineās monkey ass around.
And heās faster than Wolverine. He has Super Human agility and speed. Why do you think he just dodges all his enemies punches and talks shit? Youāre not gonna hit him. The Spider Sense lets him know its coming and heās super agility makes him a pain in the ass to hit.
Also, Spider-Man is pretty damn smart. Heās not a genius, but Reed Richards respects his intellect and the Peter created his web shooters.
And by wit, I mean by quick comebacks. Spider-man constantly talks shit to his enemies. And this before Deadpool was created.
Ok, Wolverineās been at war. But he fights like a damn idiot. Wolverineās plan of attack āIām gonna go in, get shot a lot, and when Iām close enough, cut himā.
Spider-manās plan: āOk, Iāll web their guns to their hands, drop kick him, and finish the rest of with glazing blows since I donāt want to kill himā
[quote]WolBarret wrote:
roybot wrote:
WolBarret wrote:
And another thing! Near unbreakable bones doesnāt make him unkillable. It just means his death will be long and painful.
If the Juggernaut, Hulk, Colossus, Thor, or Ben Grimm grabbed his ass by the neck and started
Juggernaut and Thor have magic-based powers. Wolverine is faster than all of the above, bar Thor.
As a side note, Batman wouldnāt have a defense against opponents with magic-based powers, either.
For the love of christ, dude.
Thor is a Asgardian. Asgardians are naturally faster, stronger, tougher, and healthier than a human being. A Asgardians like Sif or Balder are faster, stronger, and tougher than wolverine. Thor is the best out of the Asgardians, except maybe for Odin.
And you can look it up in the God Damn Marvel encyclopedia guide. And I donāt mean Marvel Wikia, I mean the fucking Encyclopedia that has the powers and abilities of every Marvel character.
JuggsāS abilities are so awesome, so Wolvie is fucked anyway. Without using hammer, Thor is a strong fucker anyway. The bastard can survive a nuclear blast. Even if you cut Thor, Wolverine wouldnāt be strong enough to make absolute killing blow. At that point, Thor tosses him into the sun.
And its not about fucking Magic, its simple logic. Certain characters can get hit with 100 tons worth of force and get up feeling fine. Most people canāt.
And you keep thinking Wolverine is THAT fast. Heās fast, but not the fastest fighter ever. All he does is get in your face, takes a bullet, and then goes for a kill shot. His kill shots against the people are named will not finish them off. Theyāll take the hit, get pissed, and then smash that bitch into the ground.[/quote]
But he is superhumanly fast, something that batman is not. Toe to toe there is no way you can argue batman would win.
Iāll have to read through some comics and try and find the one were wolverine is tricked/convinced/mind wiped into becoming a terrorist. He is completely unstoppable, with tactics and planning that match and possibly out do anything batman has ever done. In most scenarios batman is fucked.