I have been doing barbell rows for a few years now and have gotten them to roughly bodyweight for 5-7 reps but i usually don’t stick with them long enough to see size gains because I get frustrated with form and technique and usually end up overtraining my lower back.
I understand that BBRs are one of if not the best exercises for upper back thickness and therefore have recently been searching the internet to find the correct way to do them.
I have always done them parallel to the floor but I see a lot of more experienced guys and pros doing them in a more upright manner close to 45 degrees and higher and now I’m REALLY confused about technique.
what is your opinion ?
is doing barbell rows in a more upright position a better exercise than parallel BBRs for increasing upper back strength and size/thickness and not over training your lower back?
sorry for the long read and thanks in advance for replies 
I’ve found that a more upright (NOT AN UPRIGHT ROW MIND YOU!) torso angle will allow you to hit more of your upper back, while a closer to parallel angle will recruit midback and lats to some degree.
S
will the upright position still hit lats to some degree?
[quote]pearshaped wrote:
I have been doing barbell rows for a few years now and have gotten them to roughly bodyweight for 5-7 reps but i usually don’t stick with them long enough to see size gains because I get frustrated with form and technique and usually end up overtraining my lower back.
[/quote]
How do you figure that you’re “overtraining” your lower back?
because my training revolves around heavy compounds like deadlifts, squats, overhead presses etc. and they all use the lower back and i’d rather not have yet another exercise that uses the lower back
i know there’s no such thing as over training only under eating/sleeping but hopefull you can see where im coming from…
[quote]pearshaped wrote:
because my training revolves around heavy compounds like deadlifts, squats, overhead presses etc. and they all use the lower back and i’d rather not have yet another exercise that uses the lower back
i know there’s no such thing as over training only under eating/sleeping but hopefull you can see where im coming from…[/quote]
Actually it’s hard to see where you coming from. You take an exercise out of your program just because it uses the lower back, without any actual physical signs of “overtraining?”
Reduce training VOLUME on things that hit lower back. Rather than say, 3 sets of 10 with a given weight, do 1 all out set of 12-14 with that weight. Similar growth stimulus (maybe even better, depends on the individual), and less fatigue.
Also, try them much more upright, with a semi-sumo stance, hands gripping bar at shoulder width. Don’t be afraid of leg drive, as long as your spine isn’t rounding. Sets of 15-20 rep heavy-ass BB rows have left me on the ground…that should be the attitude you approach them with, balls to the wall.
For lats, use partial range of motion (the middle part, no lockout at bottom or top) wide grip pullups, rack chins, cable rows, and pendlay rows.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I’ve found that a more upright (NOT AN UPRIGHT ROW MIND YOU!) torso angle will allow you to hit more of your upper back, while a closer to parallel angle will recruit midback and lats to some degree.
S[/quote]
Agreed.
Yates-type rows… I liked them at first, but felt a much better contraction/feel in my back with a more controlled row, like a Pendlay row almost. Check out I,BB and see how Thib has his guys perform the BB row. It feels much better for me.
Additionally, if you are not willing to sacrifice some other exercises out to do your BB rows (i.e. lower back-intensive stuff, like back squats, deadlifts, etc), you can do a great deal of other things for your back.
Options for back thickness:
Seated cable rows (close neutral grip, mid neutral grip, wide neutral grip, pronated, supinated, elbows out)
Seated rope row to neck
Kroc rows
Hammer Strength stuff
Since I’m doing Olympic lifting I can’t give BB rows the effort they deserve, since my low back is already fatigued.
As long as there is no pain in your lower back while you perform them, I don’t see how you should worry about overtraining it. The back only acts as a stabilizer, so strengthen your lower back with assistance stuff.
I do the 45 degree stance also and my training revolves around the “big lifts” and have never even thought about overtraining my lower back. Granted, I don’t do alot of volume specially on Squat/Deadlift, I ALWAYS do a single for a PR.
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
As long as there is no pain in your lower back while you perform them, I don’t see how you should worry about overtraining it. The back only acts as a stabilizer, so strengthen your lower back with assistance stuff.
I do the 45 degree stance also and my training revolves around the “big lifts” and have never even thought about overtraining my lower back. Granted, I don’t do alot of volume specially on Squat/Deadlift, I ALWAYS do a single for a PR.[/quote]
Ah, but what kind of weights are you using on lifts? Stabilizing 225 on rows is a whole different story from stabilizing 425 on rows.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
As long as there is no pain in your lower back while you perform them, I don’t see how you should worry about overtraining it. The back only acts as a stabilizer, so strengthen your lower back with assistance stuff.
I do the 45 degree stance also and my training revolves around the “big lifts” and have never even thought about overtraining my lower back. Granted, I don’t do alot of volume specially on Squat/Deadlift, I ALWAYS do a single for a PR.[/quote]
Ah, but what kind of weights are you using on lifts? Stabilizing 225 on rows is a whole different story from stabilizing 425 on rows. [/quote]
OH YEA??
I stabilized 850 on rows ! buddy boy
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
As long as there is no pain in your lower back while you perform them, I don’t see how you should worry about overtraining it. The back only acts as a stabilizer, so strengthen your lower back with assistance stuff.
[/quote]
Even when my low back is fine, some days I just don’t like the BB row because it seems like I have less ‘neural drive’ (I guess I would call it that), since my hams/glutes/low back are already stabilizing the weight.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
As long as there is no pain in your lower back while you perform them, I don’t see how you should worry about overtraining it. The back only acts as a stabilizer, so strengthen your lower back with assistance stuff.
I do the 45 degree stance also and my training revolves around the “big lifts” and have never even thought about overtraining my lower back. Granted, I don’t do alot of volume specially on Squat/Deadlift, I ALWAYS do a single for a PR.[/quote]
Ah, but what kind of weights are you using on lifts? Stabilizing 225 on rows is a whole different story from stabilizing 425 on rows. [/quote]
OH YEA??
I stabilized 850 on rows ! buddy boy[/quote]
Ya whatever at least I’m not so ugly I have to hide my face with a skeleton face, cuz it’s less creepy than my actual face.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
As long as there is no pain in your lower back while you perform them, I don’t see how you should worry about overtraining it. The back only acts as a stabilizer, so strengthen your lower back with assistance stuff.
I do the 45 degree stance also and my training revolves around the “big lifts” and have never even thought about overtraining my lower back. Granted, I don’t do alot of volume specially on Squat/Deadlift, I ALWAYS do a single for a PR.[/quote]
Ah, but what kind of weights are you using on lifts? Stabilizing 225 on rows is a whole different story from stabilizing 425 on rows. [/quote]
Good point. Let’s say he’s repping 225. Shouldn’t he be used to it by now since he’s worked his way up that weight and it’s obviously not too heavy for him? A guy like Bonez would have no problem stabilizing 405 because he has trained his body and worked his way up to that weight, therefore he probably would not overtrain his lower back doing BB rows once/twice a week barring any slip ups.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
As long as there is no pain in your lower back while you perform them, I don’t see how you should worry about overtraining it. The back only acts as a stabilizer, so strengthen your lower back with assistance stuff.
I do the 45 degree stance also and my training revolves around the “big lifts” and have never even thought about overtraining my lower back. Granted, I don’t do alot of volume specially on Squat/Deadlift, I ALWAYS do a single for a PR.[/quote]
Ah, but what kind of weights are you using on lifts? Stabilizing 225 on rows is a whole different story from stabilizing 425 on rows. [/quote]
OH YEA??
I stabilized 850 on rows ! buddy boy[/quote]
Ya whatever at least I’m not so ugly I have to hide my face with a skeleton face, cuz it’s less creepy than my actual face. [/quote]
That is my actual face 
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
As long as there is no pain in your lower back while you perform them, I don’t see how you should worry about overtraining it. The back only acts as a stabilizer, so strengthen your lower back with assistance stuff.
I do the 45 degree stance also and my training revolves around the “big lifts” and have never even thought about overtraining my lower back. Granted, I don’t do alot of volume specially on Squat/Deadlift, I ALWAYS do a single for a PR.[/quote]
Ah, but what kind of weights are you using on lifts? Stabilizing 225 on rows is a whole different story from stabilizing 425 on rows. [/quote]
Good point. Let’s say he’s repping 225. Shouldn’t he be used to it by now since he’s worked his way up that weight and it’s obviously not too heavy for him? A guy like Bonez would have no problem stabilizing 405 because he has trained his body and worked his way up to that weight, therefore he probably would not overtrain his lower back doing BB rows once/twice a week barring any slip ups.[/quote]
Lol I absolutly can NOT row 405. But then again I dont do bb rows. But still 405 is a lot. Yates was using 405 at the peak of his career (pre bicep tear), maybe a bit more.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
As long as there is no pain in your lower back while you perform them, I don’t see how you should worry about overtraining it. The back only acts as a stabilizer, so strengthen your lower back with assistance stuff.
I do the 45 degree stance also and my training revolves around the “big lifts” and have never even thought about overtraining my lower back. Granted, I don’t do alot of volume specially on Squat/Deadlift, I ALWAYS do a single for a PR.[/quote]
Ah, but what kind of weights are you using on lifts? Stabilizing 225 on rows is a whole different story from stabilizing 425 on rows. [/quote]
Good point. Let’s say he’s repping 225. Shouldn’t he be used to it by now since he’s worked his way up that weight and it’s obviously not too heavy for him? A guy like Bonez would have no problem stabilizing 405 because he has trained his body and worked his way up to that weight, therefore he probably would not overtrain his lower back doing BB rows once/twice a week barring any slip ups.[/quote]
Lol I absolutly can NOT row 405. But then again I dont do bb rows. But still 405 is a lot. Yates was using 405 at the peak of his career (pre bicep tear), maybe a bit more. [/quote]
Dude, I thought your 850 rows was forealz.