Bagsy's Training Log

I think I’m confused by your confusion, haha. Regarding the question, I intentionally gained some weight earlier this year. I wanted to shed some of it before I start a 4ish month uninterrupted phase of gaining again.

I’ve lived in the USA the majority of my life. However, I love foreign language learning and have studied German for a decade. I set the language on my phone and laptop to German, so that’s why you see that :^)

The confusion stems from that if your view is that you are weak losing bodyweight rarely makes someone stronger.

I went back and watched your squat video. Do you have plans to compete? If not, as a test, you might want to try and see what happens if you don’t go as deep. Look on YouTube for Wendler squat and watch the ones where he’s squatting in training and you’ll notice that at his deepest the femur insertion in the hip aligns with the knee. Some reps are slightly above this. Also notice the rotation in his feet while you are at it.

It would be interesting to see you do a set or two with this slightly reduced ROM and see if you still end up squat-morning. If you don’t squat-morning I couldn’t explain why not but it’d be cool if it solved it.

Other smart people like @Pinkylifting @guineapig and @Koestrizer might know why this would happen :woman_shrugging:

I’m contractually obliged to say u must go deep but yes cutting depth will probably improve that aspect of the squat because isa less demanding on the muscles that are being compensated for in a squat morning pattern. Training this pattern in isolation consistently will however reinforce and magnify the squat morning pattern if u ever do end up going deep again.

Umm dropping bodyweight will make it harder to make gains. Can be so hard it becomes near impossible at a certain point but if keeping it reasonable should still be able to get stronker it’ll just be slower than in a higher calorie environment.

A significant change in squat form may reduce the squat morning pattern. Switching to a wider stance, knees out, sitting back style squat will reduce demand on the quads and allow you to use ur strong posterior chain better.

This was the first thing I noticed. You squat with what looks like a very narrow stance and this is forcing you to have quite a lot of forward knee travel (quads feel weak) as well as having to squat with a lot of torso lean with your high bar positioning and relatively long torso.

I’ve only just stumbled onto your log and haven’t read that far back to really understand your goals, but based on the log title and myself being tagged I’ll assume it strength. I think you’d get a lot of long term benefit, either from a stronger squat or at least learning more about how your squat mechanics work, from trying a wider stance squat for a while. I think this would let you squat with a more upright torso and with less forward knee travel, which seems like a double win based on your current complaints.

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@Voxel I used to squat even deeper than what I’ve recently shown, and I think I was losing tightness, so my reps were even sloppier then. I have no plans to compete in the near future, maybe someday though. I’ll see if I can cut any more depth, as I feel it’s helped a little already.

And yeah, you’re telling that to someone who can’t even really gain strength at maintenance calories, ahahaha. I know I don’t gain any strength in a deficit. But I care about my relative strength more than absolute, and about body composition a bit, so I’m not the type to eat in a surplus year-round even though that would maximize the weight on the barbell.

@guineapig I realize that switching to that squat style would likely help add weight on the bar by taking advantage of a stronger posterior chain, but I feel like this is simply putting a band-aid on part of the issue.

@Pinkylifting I’ve already significantly lowered the bar position compared to what I’ve done before. I suppose I can try a different stance again – I’ll give it another go this week – but the reason I don’t squat wider is because it bothers my hips a lot. I’m not opposed to greater knee travel, having less weight on the bar, and trying to engrain a better movement pattern if they mean I can better address my quad weakness.

Can you describe your hip pain further? I have a goldilocks planets align thing with mine and a wider stance. Maybe you’re equally “fortunate”. You may disagree but for me my leverages there’s a certain way to squat where I’ll be strongest. It might not look as appealing as other styles. But, I’ve decided that for my main lift I go for strong and then my supplemental work is geared towards fixing the weak bits. Then the form change doesn’t feel like a bandaid. To me.

I’d have to try it again with a barbell to be able to accurately describe it. But even after doing free weight BW wide stance squats, it’s not a great feeling. Maybe pain is the incorrect word for me. I don’t know. It truthfully feels very wrong to me though. Could make the case that it’s because I’m not used to it, and that’s fine – maybe true. I realize lifting isn’t supposed to be comfortable (I hate squatting enough as it is), but maybe my hip structure is also what makes the sumo deadlift feel terrible to me.

I’m clearly a very stubborn and not particularly open-minded person when it comes to lifting, I suppose, hahaha.

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This post is money for squat technique btw. Its an old post but when she shows her setup for the squat that helped me out quite a bit even. Hinge during your setup before you squat and keeping that slight hinge from top to the bottom of the movement does the trick. I think its at the 1:50 mark in the video or there abouts.

Good stuff. Thank you sir.

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Maybe. There’s much individual differences going on in lifting so we have to lift in the right way for our bodies to get max gains.

Like said a while ago likely take something extreme to clean up your squat in that way because it’s just ur leverages mostly. Machines, years of true weightlifting style squatting.

As is right now not so much a bandaid approach as doing nothing to a big wound that may or may not require stitching and other intervention. Maybe that’s stretching the analogy too far. No guarantee of fixing with just back squats

It’s fine I’ll just become that person whose bench catches up to her squat and further exacerbates the gap between the squat and deadlift. Not that I think one lift outperforming the others is something to “fix” though (I don’t think I’m in a position to claim that that’s the case for me anyway)

You’ll be a skipping leg day meme when u bench as much as squat

Yep, and it’s especially funny to me because women usually have the opposite problem.

Honestly would rather be a pull up meme though. I don’t use social media very much, but whenever I do, I enjoy Alena Alsruhe’s training vids on IG. Wish I could crank out the weighted pullups like her:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFx-1CjgxJG/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

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Then stop doing volume and start pushing intensity

You have a very quad dominant squat. Don’t confuse quads being the limiting factor with quad weakness. Wider squats aren’t for everyone, I can’t go as wide as I’d like for the same reason, but wider would address some of the issues you mention.

Elaborate. Do you mean she’s squatting in a way that predominantly targets the quads?

I’m not sure I agree. I essentially never do weighted chins but can still do a single with half my bodyweight added. Although, without being able to offer an alternative me that does them for intensity it’s hard to tell what’d be the best way (all trade-offs considered) for her to aspire to the Instagram post. But volume can build pulling. FWIW I do my pull-ups fairly aggressively in training.

Yes. Very significant knee travel and long ROM at the knee joint both put huge stress on the quad. Shes also doing a long ROM at the hips, basically doing the perfect bodybuilder squat. Minimum mechanical efficiency, maximum muscular stress at the given weight. Great for hypertrophy, not so great for big numbers. If she wants stronger quads, great, If she wants a bigger squat, not so much. So depends on the goal here.

Id say being able to do weighted chin up despite not doing heavily weighted chinups doesnt mean thats not the best way to train them. All chinups are weighted anyway (your bodyweight) so doing a lot of chins with 80kg will eventuaolly mean you’ able to do a chinup with 120kg. But if you ant to get good at weighted chinups I don’t think its contentious to say practice weighted chinups. Same as any other movement, progressive overload. Adding reps works to a point, but only to a point. Just doing pushups will increase your bench, to point, but once you are repping 100 pushups your bench isnt going to go up much by getting that to 120

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It’s interesting that you bring up knee travel.

I’ll preface this by emphasising that I don’t spend any great deal of time looking at big squatters (maybe I should change that) but it has been my impression that the days of reduced knee travel (almost aiming to keep the knee over the heel or even behind), with an ultra wide stance, flat shoes and (maybe?) maximum mechanical efficiency like Tate

Dave-Tate

Has been supplanted by oly shoes and a much more moderate stance. Is this merely that today’s top people are built better to squat that way or has it been found that somewhere in between the two outliers had the best potential for strength exhibition? :thinking:

Actually, trying to find examples of the latter had me reassess that this is also kind of wide

But maybe Amit Sapir fuels the argument

Bodybuilder-Breaks-World-Squat-Record

Fair counter argument. That’s why I included the parenthesis about trade-offs as I’m not certain what @Bagsy wants most considering well… Trade-offs (hypertrophy, max strength,…)