Bagdad Falling

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
501

[quote]kamui wrote:

What i said was no more and no less funny than what you said.
I mechanically used an old marxist concept to “analyze” a contemporary reality, which produced an absurd result.
You used an another marxist concept, but in the very same way, with the very same result.

One more time, for the fun :

My sister owns the camera she use to put lolcats videos on youtube. “Therefore” she is a 12 year old bourgeois and a paypal capitalist.

[/quote]

First of all how is your sister a capitalist, she owns no means of production, so again you are incoherent.

description of the lumpenproletariat:

Alongside decayed roués with dubious means of subsistence and of dubious origin, alongside ruined and adventurous offshoots of the bourgeoisie, were vagabonds, discharged soldiers, discharged jailbirds, escaped galley slaves, swindlers, mountebanks, lazzaroni, pickpockets, tricksters, gamblers, maquereaux [pimps], brothel keepers, porters, literati, organ grinders, ragpickers, knife grinders, tinkers, beggars â?? in short, the whole indefinite, disintegrated mass, thrown hither and thither, which the French call la bohème.
502

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Although she may be incorrect about what is in their hearts… [/quote]

That is my point.

We are required by law to follow order, but that is never (in my experience) the real reason we do what we do. [/quote]

Whole bunch of bullshit. [/quote]

I thought you weren’t gonna respond to me?
[/quote]

Doing a great job of saying, i might take part in the brutal murder of hundreds of thousands of women and children, but I don’t purposefully do it for Hallibrton.

Good for you, you take part in the slaughter because as long as you are fit you can do it and you are willfully ignorant you qualify.

I hope you have a great life.

503

Her camera produces videos.
Her videos can become products.
She is a capitalist. Like everyone with an Iphone.

Yes, that’s it.
Hollywood :slight_smile:

504

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

Erm I don’t volunteer to pay taxes. So no I am not doing that. Voluntarily joining an imperialist military and being forced to pay taxes is not the same.

One if forced and violence is threatened if you do not comply, physically robbing you and taking you and throwing you in a cage, the other is the voluntary joining of the military which you know is currently active in murdering foreigners in wars that are for the sole purpose of the handful of corporate interests that have influence in the state to bring these wars about.

How is that the same as bein forced by the state to pay money (which also goes to schools, roads, services)

[/quote]

erm, because consequences be damned, you are still engaging in supporting the evil you so lovingly describe. Whether or not it is in your best interests to comply with the force is irrelevant. If your logic is to be used the ONLY moral route is to refuse to pay your taxes and face your punishment.

So please, save us the high horse because you, as a tax payer (assuming you actually make enough to owe taxes) are just as culpable as any solider, because you act immorally in your own best interests, in a way that benefits what you slander the solider for doing.

Welcome to collectivist responsibility. Good luck trying to blame anything other than the individual without incriminating yourself.

505

[quote]kamui wrote:

Her camera produces videos.
Her videos can become products.
She is a capitalist. Like everyone with an Iphone.

Yes, that’s it.
Hollywood :slight_smile: [/quote]

Please understand the discussion. Means of production does not mean a product lol.

Buying an iphone does not make you a capitalist, it makes you a consumer, owning a factory that makres iphones and paying the workers a wage and extracting surplus value from them and making profit makes you one.

Please go read a book or somehting, because that is incredibly embarassing for you.

506

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Although she may be incorrect about what is in their hearts… [/quote]

That is my point.

We are required by law to follow order, but that is never (in my experience) the real reason we do what we do. [/quote]

Whole bunch of bullshit. [/quote]

I thought you weren’t gonna respond to me?
[/quote]

Doing a great job of saying, i might take part in the brutal murder of hundreds of thousands of women and children, but I don’t purposefully do it for Hallibrton.

Good for you, you take part in the slaughter because as long as you are fit you can do it and you are willfully ignorant you qualify.

I hope you have a great life.[/quote]

You are, get this, no better than those you disparage.

How’s that feel?

Or are you still in denial?

507

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

Please go read a book or somehting, because that is incredibly embarassing for you.

[/quote]

two things:

  1. You don’t even know the qualifications of the person you are insulting.
  2. I was right, you are the same person back with a new name…
508

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Although she may be incorrect about what is in their hearts… [/quote]

That is my point.

We are required by law to follow order, but that is never (in my experience) the real reason we do what we do. [/quote]

Whole bunch of bullshit. [/quote]

I thought you weren’t gonna respond to me?
[/quote]

Doing a great job of saying, i might take part in the brutal murder of hundreds of thousands of women and children, but I don’t purposefully do it for Hallibrton.

Good for you, you take part in the slaughter because as long as you are fit you can do it and you are willfully ignorant you qualify.

I hope you have a great life.[/quote]

Lol

Well, don’t worry. If you ever need us (again), we’ll still come.

509

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

Erm I don’t volunteer to pay taxes. So no I am not doing that. Voluntarily joining an imperialist military and being forced to pay taxes is not the same.

One if forced and violence is threatened if you do not comply, physically robbing you and taking you and throwing you in a cage, the other is the voluntary joining of the military which you know is currently active in murdering foreigners in wars that are for the sole purpose of the handful of corporate interests that have influence in the state to bring these wars about.

How is that the same as bein forced by the state to pay money (which also goes to schools, roads, services)

[/quote]

erm, because consequences be damned, you are still engaging in supporting the evil you so lovingly describe. Whether or not it is in your best interests to comply with the force is irrelevant. If your logic is to be used the ONLY moral route is to refuse to pay your taxes and face your punishment.

So please, save us the high horse because you, as a tax payer (assuming you actually make enough to owe taxes) are just as culpable as any solider, because you act immorally in your own best interests, in a way that benefits what you slander the solider for doing.

Welcome to collectivist responsibility. Good luck trying to blame anything other than the individual without incriminating yourself.
[/quote]

Again, if someone forces you to rape someone and they have a gun to your head and if you volunteer to go out and rape someone with no coersion, they are not the same.

You know it, I know it, soldiers know it, they volunteer for murder. They are not forced. And force does matter, because it is about choosing to do something. I can’t not pay taxes, I am from the UK, my tax is automatically taken out of my pay. There is no way to fight it. It is a forced robbery of me by the state.

Being a victim of robbery and coersion by the state and volunteering for robbery and murder for that state are not the same

510

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

Nu
Her camera produces videos.
Her videos can become products.
She is a capitalist. Like everyone with an Iphone.

Yes, that’s it.
Hollywood :slight_smile: [/quote]

Please understand the discussion. Means of production does not mean a product lol.

Buying an iphone does not make you a capitalist, it makes you a consumer, owning a factory that makres iphones and paying the workers a wage and extracting surplus value from them and making profit makes you one.

Please go read a book or somehting, because that is incredibly embarassing for you.

[/quote]

The camera produces the product(videos) therefore the camera is the means of production. You’re a halfwit.

511

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Although she may be incorrect about what is in their hearts… [/quote]

That is my point.

We are required by law to follow order, but that is never (in my experience) the real reason we do what we do. [/quote]

Whole bunch of bullshit. [/quote]

I thought you weren’t gonna respond to me?
[/quote]

Doing a great job of saying, i might take part in the brutal murder of hundreds of thousands of women and children, but I don’t purposefully do it for Hallibrton.

Good for you, you take part in the slaughter because as long as you are fit you can do it and you are willfully ignorant you qualify.

I hope you have a great life.[/quote]

You are, get this, no better than those you disparage.

How’s that feel?

Or are you still in denial?[/quote]

You keep bringing up morals, I am not a moralist, I am a materialist, I analyse using the materialist analysis, based on the scientific principles of reality.

Being a worker and being forced to pay taxes and volunteering to go kill in imperialist occupations are not the same, no matter how many times you shout it while stompin g on the ground.

512

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Although she may be incorrect about what is in their hearts… [/quote]

That is my point.

We are required by law to follow order, but that is never (in my experience) the real reason we do what we do. [/quote]

Whole bunch of bullshit. [/quote]

I thought you weren’t gonna respond to me?
[/quote]

Doing a great job of saying, i might take part in the brutal murder of hundreds of thousands of women and children, but I don’t purposefully do it for Hallibrton.

Good for you, you take part in the slaughter because as long as you are fit you can do it and you are willfully ignorant you qualify.

I hope you have a great life.[/quote]

Lol

Well, don’t worry. If you ever need us (again), we’ll still come. [/quote]

Again America joined ww2 (late) for profit, the same as England did, Germany did and all the other big players did.

And again, this wierd idea the Marines have ever done anything to save people, you are a bunch of undereducated men from working class homes who joined the mariens mainly due to lack of choices in life and kill people when the capitalsit class influence the government to enact these conflicts.

All your dead and limbless and mutilated comrades die for rich people. nd you sit there like a goon ating like you save people.

The US marines dies in part to side with England in an intra imperialist war.

It is almost like the American revolution wasnt really against tyranny.

513

[quote]
Please understand the discussion. Means of production does not mean a product lol.[/quote]

I never said that.
I said a camera is a mean to product a product called a video. Which can be profitable.
IE : a mean of production.

[quote]
Buying an iphone does not make you a capitalist, it makes you a consumer, owning a factory that makres iphones and paying the workers a wage and extracting surplus value from them and making profit makes you one.[/quote]

So if i own a factory that makes Iphones, and used robots instead of workers, am i a capitalist or not ?

Any book or something you could advise me to read ?

514

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

Her camera produces videos.
Her videos can become products.
She is a capitalist. Like everyone with an Iphone.

Yes, that’s it.
Hollywood :slight_smile: [/quote]

Please understand the discussion. Means of production does not mean a product lol.

Buying an iphone does not make you a capitalist, it makes you a consumer, owning a factory that makres iphones and paying the workers a wage and extracting surplus value from them and making profit makes you one.

Please go read a book or somehting, because that is incredibly embarassing for you.

[/quote]

The camera produces the product(videos) therefore the camera is the means of production. You’re a halfwit.
[/quote]

Ha. Holy shit dude, please go figure out what means of production entails when talking about class and economics. Holyshit.

515

[quote]

  1. You don’t even know the qualifications of the person you are insulting.
  2. I was right, you are the same person back with a new name…[/quote]

Regardless of 2), i don’t think it would change anything if he knew my qualifications.

516

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Although she may be incorrect about what is in their hearts… [/quote]

That is my point.

We are required by law to follow order, but that is never (in my experience) the real reason we do what we do. [/quote]

Whole bunch of bullshit. [/quote]

I thought you weren’t gonna respond to me?
[/quote]

Doing a great job of saying, i might take part in the brutal murder of hundreds of thousands of women and children, but I don’t purposefully do it for Hallibrton.

Good for you, you take part in the slaughter because as long as you are fit you can do it and you are willfully ignorant you qualify.

I hope you have a great life.[/quote]

Lol

Well, don’t worry. If you ever need us (again), we’ll still come. [/quote]

Again America joined ww2 (late) for profit, the same as England did, Germany did and all the other big players did.

And again, this wierd idea the Mariens have ever done anything to save people, you are a bunch of undereducated men from working class homes who joined the mariens mainly due to lack of choices in life and kill people when the capitalsit class influence the government to enact these conflicts.

All your dead and limbless and mutilated comrades die for rich people. nd you sit there like a goon ating like you save people.

The US marines dies in part to side with England in an intra imperialist war.

It is almost like the American revolution wasnt really against tyranny.
[/quote]

LOLOLOLOL

I was in need of a good laugh today, thanks!

This is my favorite part, “this wierd idea the Mariens have ever done anything to save people, you are a bunch of undereducated men…” Just a dumb Marine here so, I don’t know what wierd, Mariens, or undereducated mean?

517

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

Again, if someone forces you to rape someone and they have a gun to your head and if you volunteer to go out and rape someone with no coersion, they are not the same.[/quote]

If you choose to rape, you choose to rape, period. The consequences or factors leading to the rape don’t matter. In both situations you are putting yourself, your self interests ahead of another.

You want to justify your exemption from collectivist responsibility with semantics, but you can’t. No one can. You want to hold the collective responsibly, yet exempt yourself, and your role in the collective action. This is impossible. And once you actually think about it, you’ll get that.

You keep saying things as if because you say them they are true…

Forced or not, you still choose to do it. You can choose not to rape in your example above. Your consequences may be death, but you still choose to rape. You can not be both the victim and victimizer at the same time.

lol, you’re not to keen on the finer points of withholding and taxation. Nor apparently with the word “move” or “relocate”.

There are either individual actors who deserve individual blame or there is collective blame. Which is it?

518

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

Being a worker and being forced to pay taxes and volunteering to go kill in imperialist occupations are not the same, no matter how many times you shout it while stompin g on the ground.[/quote]

I’m not shouting. I’m clearly outlining your own logic for you.

Feel free to continue to ignore it.

You are not forced to pay taxes. People go to prison for not paying them all the time.

519

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

Her camera produces videos.
Her videos can become products.
She is a capitalist. Like everyone with an Iphone.

Yes, that’s it.
Hollywood :slight_smile: [/quote]

Please understand the discussion. Means of production does not mean a product lol.

Buying an iphone does not make you a capitalist, it makes you a consumer, owning a factory that makres iphones and paying the workers a wage and extracting surplus value from them and making profit makes you one.

Please go read a book or somehting, because that is incredibly embarassing for you.

[/quote]

The camera produces the product(videos) therefore the camera is the means of production. You’re a halfwit.
[/quote]

Ha. Holy shit dude, please go figure out what means of production entails when talking about class and economics. Holyshit.
[/quote]

I don’t need to look it up. But to help you grasp the concept I’ll post a quote for you:

"In economics and sociology, the means of production refers to physical, non-human inputs used in production; that is, the “means of production” includes capital assets used to produce wealth, such as machinery, tools and factories,[1] including both infrastructural capital and natural capital.

The means of production can be simply described as follows: in an agrarian society the soil and the shovel are the means of production; in an industrial society, mines and the factories; and in a knowledge economy, offices and computers."

What is it you don’t understand?

520

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
What is it you don’t understand?[/quote]

I don’t think there’s enough bandwidth for this answer.