Avena Sativa

Nutrition
21

[quote]Damici wrote:
I hate to say it, and I’m not trying to be a wise-ass, but the vast majority of people you know are definitely in the minority. :wink: Look around on the 'net. Check out other sites and message boards. (Not just one – check out several). You’ll quickly see what the overwhelming feeling is (which is that the old version rocked relative to the newer versions). Again, I’m not trying to be a pain in the ass, but there is a pretty common feeling among the general supplement-using community, it seems.

litespeed wrote:
I’m sure there are a small number of people who prefer the original TRIBEX over the current version. This is actually the case with all products that are updated.

People have a certain nostalgia for the original and some may have gotten better results, perceived or actual, while using the original.

In some cases this may be due to the individual’s unique biology. In other cases their results while using the original may have been greater as a result of other factors. Maybe they were at a point in their training where they happened to respond particularly well, maybe they were primed for higher sex drive. Could be any of many factors involved.

Whatever the issue, I can definitely state that the vast majority of people I know who have used TRIBEX definitely prefer the current version.

[/quote]

I work in the supplement industry and talk to consumers, store employees, and distributors daily and have not encountered anything similar to the response you claim.

No offence, but I believe that you just really liked the original and you are embelishing in an attempt to influence Biotest. I applaude your effort, but I wholeheartedly disagree with your appraisal of customer’s opinions.

22

[quote]Big Dave56 wrote:
It’s not nostalgia on my part, whether it is Alpha Male or any other supplement company’s eurycoma longifolia if I take anywhere near the recommended amount I will begin having nights of less and less sleep of increasingly worse quality.

That makes the original which worked very well for me much better than the current version. [/quote]

My prior comments were not directed toward you.

23

No offense Lightspeed, but my point stands. Like I said, if you have the time, check out a wide sampling of forums on the web. It’s one of those things that seems so almost --overwhelming – that it’s kind of hard to ignore. I don’t know if this will influence Biotest at all (I suspect not), but it’s a shame. That’s all.

24

I’m one of those that always responded well to TRIBEX, but didn’t get much of anything from Alpha Male. Don’t know if it was the avena or what, but there was a big difference.

Just my $.02

25

Just a quick update:

I’ve been taking the Avena (solo, the Alpha Male hasn’t arrived yet) for nearly two days now, and I’ve already felt the difference. My muscles TINGLE. My veins CHARGE with blood. I feel stronger, my mind sharper, only 20-30 minutes after taking it. Bloodflow is DEFINITELY increased, last night when I got home from work at about 1AM, I took my last dose for the day, brushed my teeth, took a dump, etc. and when I looked at myself in the mirror again, my veins were more pronounced in my chest and arms. I could see ALL of them through my skin. I trained yesterday morning and set a new PR for incline dumbell press (61lbs each hand for 3 sets of 8 reps, a 5lb increase per arm) - NO DOMS, NO stiffness today, I feel like I could train again right now.

fucking incredible. Avena might not work for everyone, but it sure as hell works for me. I hope that with the addition of Alpha Male and creatine (and the remainder of my Carbolin 19 - last bottle gulp), I’ll make some good gains this next month.

(on a side note, I’ve been crapping more, and better. 4 SOLID bowell movements yesterday as opposed to the usual 2 or 3 sometimes skimpy ones I usually have)

26

Knewsom,

I don’t know how much of that you can attribute to the avena sativa, but sounds interesting. Out of curiosity, what dosage are you taking, and is it in capsule form or powder form? And what brand are you using?

Thanks.

27

I say replace the vitex with avena.

28

I second that.

[quote]silencer wrote:
I say replace the vitex with avena.
[/quote]

29

It’s made by “Herb Pharm”, in liquid tincture form; I take a dropperfull 5 times a day.

If the change I’ve noticed in only a day or two can’t be attributed to Avena, then what CAN it be attributed to? I haven’t changed my supp regimen (Carbolin 19 and FLAMEOUT) for months, with the exception of running out of whey protein and having to eat more cottage cheese and eggs to compensate.

30

Is it the one that’s combined with licorice? I looked on their website and didn’t see a lone avena-only product . . . .

[quote]knewsom wrote:
It’s made by “Herb Pharm”, in liquid tincture form; I take a dropperfull 5 times a day.

If the change I’ve noticed in only a day or two can’t be attributed to Avena, then what CAN it be attributed to? I haven’t changed my supp regimen (Carbolin 19 and FLAMEOUT) for months, with the exception of running out of whey protein and having to eat more cottage cheese and eggs to compensate.[/quote]

31

No, I bought the one that’s JUST Avena - it’s called “Oat Seed”.

32

Whats the difference between Alpha Male and the NEW TRIBEX 500, other than nano disperson vs rapid release? I was looking around, and I couldn’t see a difference, other than that, and the doseage…

Anyone know?

EDIT:
oh wait, I just reread the thread:

So why is there still both?

33

[quote]Nomancer wrote:
So why is there still both?[/quote]

…maybe they’re testing the waters to see what people both like better and have better results with - nano dispursement, or the quick release tablets… maybe they’re also in different proportions, I dunno…

All I DO know is that I’m planning stacking Alpha Male with Avena.

34

(Bump).

I’d love to hear any thoughts from the Biotest/T-Nation people.

35

[quote]Nomancer wrote:
Whats the difference between Alpha Male and the NEW TRIBEX 500, other than nano disperson vs rapid release? I was looking around, and I couldn’t see a difference, other than that, and the doseage…

Anyone know?

EDIT:
oh wait, I just reread the thread:

Velvet Revolver wrote:
Big Dave56 wrote:
Dammit, the new TRIBEX has Eurycoma longifolia, guess I won’t be taking that anymore. How is it any different from Alpha Male?

Maybe I can find some of the old formula somewhere.

Fuck.

The new TRIBEX uses the rapid release technology like Spike does, and Alpha Male uses nano. Thats pretty much the only difference, aside from exact dosages.

Avena isnt all that, there are better compounds out there

So why is there still both?[/quote]

They’ve said that there still workin a few kinks out right now before Alpha goes Rapid Release.

Avena doesnt bode well with nanotechnology. Its been posted before by one of the mods.

Im on my third bottle out of four of TRIBEX right now. If anyone wants to point me towards a good brand of avena, I’ll stack it with my next bottle of TRIBEX and let ya’ll know if I notice a differece. Im all for it. Im not a Biotest only guy - I use Greens Plus, take a diff brand of ZMA(I get it at a huge discount), I buy quite a few other things from GNC when on sale, especially protein powder, so I won’t be biased. I’ll let ya know how it goes too.

36

[quote]Velvet Revolver wrote:

They’ve said that there still workin a few kinks out right now before Alpha goes Rapid Release.
[/quote]

YES, BUT: When Alpha Male goes rapid release, it will be Exactly the same as the current TRIBEX, except for possibly doseages!

My wager: they’re clearing out current Nano Dispursed formula, or they are reformulating it…

How about powdeered avena sativa? Its like $8 for 150 grams… Is it a better deal even if you have to take more?

Also: I’ve heard it suggested that Greens+ is bad for Testosterone…

37

…not sure about the powdered stuff, a friend of mine who’s pretty knowledgable seemed to think that the liquid might be better.

…but still, for $10 a bottle from the co-op, the Herb Pharm stuff isn’t a bad deal at all. It TASTES like ass, but hey, we don’t lift weights because we’re a bunch of fucking pussies, right?

38

Be careful! While powedered avena sativa may be effective, it tastes LITERALLY like bile. I mean – exactly – like bile! You now how if you throw up a bit or regurgitate food you get that nasty, harshly acid, positively disgusting, nauseating taste in your mouth? THAT’S what powdered avena tastes like. Don’t say I haven’t warned you!

[quote]Nomancer wrote:
Velvet Revolver wrote:

They’ve said that there still workin a few kinks out right now before Alpha goes Rapid Release.

YES, BUT: When Alpha Male goes rapid release, it will be Exactly the same as the current TRIBEX, except for possibly doseages!

My wager: they’re clearing out current Nano Dispursed formula, or they are reformulating it…

How about powdeered avena sativa? Its like $8 for 150 grams… Is it a better deal even if you have to take more?

Also: I’ve heard it suggested that Greens+ is bad for Testosterone…[/quote]

39

Buy a capper and a big bag of gel caps. I’ve done that before, it works great and you avoid the taste.

40

[quote]Damici wrote:
(Bump).

I’d love to hear any thoughts from the Biotest/T-Nation people.
[/quote]

Hi Damici,

The problem is that there just isn’t a great deal to go on. As I’ve gone over previously in other threads, regardless of any of the supplements, whenever a change occurs, there is invariably at least some portion of people who feel that the previous version was more effective, even when the reasoning for the change is very sound and supportive of a more effective product. Now, the reason I mention that is not to say that you’re just a part of some change-fearing group of “usuals” but rather to make my point that it makes it difficult to discern what is a normal reaction and what is something significant that needs to be taken care of…and just to add to this, it isn’t something unique to supplements. This happens with OTC drugs as well when formulations are changed or even when switching brands.

As for the avena sativa, there just isn’t much to go on and compared to the other plants, it has far less supportive data. There is however, some suggestive data that it may help with sexual function and it’s through the same mechanism that some might feel they get a better “pump” and are more “vascular” looking.

While I certainly don’t question the sentiment of yourself and others on here, I’m less certain about opinions on other message boards. Perhaps it’s just me, but I see any easy way for competitors and others with vested interests to make comments such as:

“The previous version was awesome, but after they took out the avena sativa, it didn’t have the same effect, which is why I use (insert here).”

Or in general, plug their products or make degrading comments about the products here.

So while I’d certainly take an overwhelming amount of anecdotal evidence seriously, I just haven’t seen it at this point.

Now, I’m sure that when 5 or 10 people come to the same conclusion it seems obvious to most that it’s significant, but from my perspective it’s a bit different. When you’re talking about let’s say 5,000 people having used the two products and let’s say 100 people agree that the change was for the worse, that’s still only 2%. Granted, not everyone comes to the forums to voice their opinions, but I hope one can see my point.

Now, this in no way is my stating that “we’re right and you’re wrong,” I’m simply pointing out why it’s difficult.