Athletes and Bodyfat

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]MUthrows94 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Stength4life wrote:
Heavy-Duty wrote:
Cardio is ALWAYS a good idea. I do cardio 6 days a week for 45 minute sessions. Great for the most important muscle in the body: the heart!

I agree

These people and the “I do cardio for the most important muscle in my body: the Heart” blah blah blah…these are the same people eating highly processed foods and fail to use heart healthy supplements. At least this is what the general population does. Eating lean meats, veggies, fruits, taking fish oil, and resistance training is just as good for your heart if not better than what most of these people do. Shit, when you get done a set of heavy squats your heart is racing, if your heart rate is not elevated during your workout your training like a pussy.
[/quote]

BULLSHIT

If your used to intense cardio sessions, heavy weight lifting just isn’t going to get your heart racing like sprinting a 400, or running suicides. The most difficult part of lifting weights for super cardio people is resting between sets, because they recover so quick.

OP, my opinion of cardio is that it’s as large a subject area as weightlifing. Theres differnt intensity levels rep ranges, complexities, as well as different parts of the body that can be used. If your not going to look into it for the most part stick to the basics and you’ll be ok. Otherwise it wrecks having on the mass building hormone systems, and may even make muscles look flat. I don’t know if this is because the muscles are longer or carb depleted or what, but people who do cardio alot just don’t have those deep muscle bellies. Like Karl Malone, and Pudjanowski were both pretty big guys who did lots of cardio but they just don’t have the bulging muscle look of bodybuilders despite low body fat.

22

Some cardio is good but the whole “more cardio = better heart health” equation is not necessarily true.

The bottom line is that some cardio/exercise (other than weightlifting) can be very beneficial. But, long (>30 minutes) bouts of steady state running multiple times a week is a lot of extra stress on your CV system.

Ultimately, you are asking your blood vessels and heart to perform a lot more work. This wears down your body and it stands to reason that it will stop working sooner (i.e. you die).

Put thousands and thousands of miles on your car and it will die faster.

Your body oxidizes and wears out…putting it through more and more work is counterintuitive (although many people have the opposite ingrained in them).

Of course, you have to balance that with the fact that being fat is bad for your heart too. So, if cardio will get the fat off it’s probably worth it…but again, a fat loss period where a lot of cardio is used prob shouldn’t last longer than 12-15 weeks. Then, maintain.

If you are lean already, a ton of running is not very healthful long term, imho.

23

[quote]trextacy wrote:
Your body oxidizes and wears out…putting it through more and more work is counterintuitive (although many people have the opposite ingrained in them).
[/quote]

“enter into a combination with oxygen or become converted into an oxide”
What???

24

[quote]Scorzerci wrote:
trextacy wrote:
Your body oxidizes and wears out…putting it through more and more work is counterintuitive (although many people have the opposite ingrained in them).

“enter into a combination with oxygen or become converted into an oxide”
What???[/quote]

I mean it as a metaphor…like your body rusts, wears out, etc.

25

I don’t understand what this post is getting at. Obviously if you burn lots of calories through cardio and you don’t compensate with your eating, you’ll lose fat. Doesn’t mean it will get you super lean, the way a hard lifting program and tightly dialed in diet will. And doesn’t mean you also wouldn’t lose a lot of muscle if not also lifting. Most people will.

I was shredded when I ran competitively. We also always lifted weights as part of our training. Most athletes today weight train, even endurance athletes.

26

[quote]MUthrows94 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Stength4life wrote:
Heavy-Duty wrote:
Cardio is ALWAYS a good idea. I do cardio 6 days a week for 45 minute sessions. Great for the most important muscle in the body: the heart!

I agree

These people and the “I do cardio for the most important muscle in my body: the Heart” blah blah blah…these are the same people eating highly processed foods and fail to use heart healthy supplements. At least this is what the general population does. Eating lean meats, veggies, fruits, taking fish oil, and resistance training is just as good for your heart if not better than what most of these people do. Shit, when you get done a set of heavy squats your heart is racing, if your heart rate is not elevated during your workout your training like a pussy.
[/quote]

Yeah I 'm going to second the bullshit comment. Honestly, the heart IS the most important muscle. Try to find an article with legitamate studies that degrades cardio. I highly doubt you will find one.

27

[quote]Stength4life wrote:
MUthrows94 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Stength4life wrote:
Heavy-Duty wrote:
Cardio is ALWAYS a good idea. I do cardio 6 days a week for 45 minute sessions. Great for the most important muscle in the body: the heart!

I agree

These people and the “I do cardio for the most important muscle in my body: the Heart” blah blah blah…these are the same people eating highly processed foods and fail to use heart healthy supplements. At least this is what the general population does. Eating lean meats, veggies, fruits, taking fish oil, and resistance training is just as good for your heart if not better than what most of these people do. Shit, when you get done a set of heavy squats your heart is racing, if your heart rate is not elevated during your workout your training like a pussy.

Yeah I 'm going to second the bullshit comment. Honestly, the heart IS the most important muscle. Try to find an article with legitamate studies that degrades cardio. I highly doubt you will find one. [/quote]

Can someone explain what the FUCK cardio is? Is it running on my street that’s narrow enough with all the fucking snow and ice in a pair of tights with nylon shorts and earmuffs? Jogging for 45min is NOT the only form of cardio. Too many people seem to think of cardio as strictly extended periods of aerobics (jogging) and I don’t get it.

28

For me, a good cardio workout is between 20-45 minutes of getting %50-75 of your max heart rate

29

[quote]Stength4life wrote:

Yeah I 'm going to second the bullshit comment. Honestly, the heart IS the most important muscle. Try to find an article with legitamate studies that degrades cardio. I highly doubt you will find one. [/quote]

Where are the articles and studies that tell you to do multiple sessions of long duration cardio while training for optimal muscle gains?

It’s not bullshit at all IMO. Nobody is saying that your heart isn’t important, but you do not have to do long duration cardio nearly every day in order to maintain heart health, nor can you reach a level of conditioning where even the most strenuous weights session is “too easy”.
Even if you could, that is way past the point of doing cardio for ‘heart health’.

You can take the most aerobically conditioned athlete in the world and there will always come a point where a weights session will become physically demanding for them(by increasing loads, shortening rest intervals, or a combination of both).

A heavy squat session or interval sprints will work your heart just as well, if not better than conventional cardio on a treadmill. Why? Because your legs are pumping blood back into your heart at a faster rate, in turn making your heart work harder to recirculate it back around your body.

The very fact that you are carrying extra muscle mass around will put extra demands on your heart, and that is enough to keep it healthy.

Aerobic conditioning is not the only path to heart health. Anerobic exercise can be just as effective. There is no reason to be running at that duration and frequency unless you are a competitve athlete or enjoy running.

At which point, you need to take a step back and think about what your priorities are, and how badly you want to build muscle.

30

[quote]Stength4life wrote:
MUthrows94 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Stength4life wrote:
Heavy-Duty wrote:
Cardio is ALWAYS a good idea. I do cardio 6 days a week for 45 minute sessions. Great for the most important muscle in the body: the heart!

I agree

These people and the “I do cardio for the most important muscle in my body: the Heart” blah blah blah…these are the same people eating highly processed foods and fail to use heart healthy supplements. At least this is what the general population does. Eating lean meats, veggies, fruits, taking fish oil, and resistance training is just as good for your heart if not better than what most of these people do. Shit, when you get done a set of heavy squats your heart is racing, if your heart rate is not elevated during your workout your training like a pussy.

Yeah I 'm going to second the bullshit comment. Honestly, the heart IS the most important muscle. Try to find an article with legitamate studies that degrades cardio. I highly doubt you will find one. [/quote]

Reading comprehension is key here. He never said “cardio is bad” nor does he degrade cardio. What he does say is that the people doing cardio and eating highly processed food might be in worse shape than people eating lean meats, veggies, fruits, etc + resistance training.

Regarding the other poster, I think it really depends on how much effort you’re putting into the weight session. I used to run middle distance and distance for 5 years in high school and college combined. I know damn sure that when I was running, I put less effort into lifting for the most part. However, when I was lifting legs (lunges/squats), I could still get my heart racing. This is even when I was running 70+ miles a week and doing intervals. You have to match the intensity for a fair comparison. Granted, my heart rate wasn’t as fast, but I still needed some time between the sets.

For health purposes, yes, cardio is good, but as mentioned, not for all goals.

31

Anyone know a good fail-pic site?
…

32

Let me try to make it a little more clear:

Take two identical twins (5’ 10" lbs.) for example. Everything about these twins is the same, but twin #2 decides to take up running for 1 hour every morning. Instead of eating the same amount as he did before, twin #2 decides to compensate for the calories he burnt up on his run by eating more…

Your left with two people, one who decides to maintain his weight through diet (twin #1), and one man who decides to run, and eat extra calories to compensate for it (twin #2).

Your left with two guys (just imagine they have the same genetic structure), both 5’ 10", and 150 lbs.

Who is going to be leaner?

33

[quote]Mcflurry wrote:
Let me try to make it a little more clear:

Take two identical twins (5’ 10" lbs.) for example. Everything about these twins is the same, but twin #2 decides to take up running for 1 hour every morning. Instead of eating the same amount as he did before, twin #2 decides to compensate for the calories he burnt up on his run by eating more…

Your left with two people, one who decides to maintain his weight through diet (twin #1), and one man who decides to run, and eat extra calories to compensate for it (twin #2).

Your left with two guys (just imagine they have the same genetic structure), both 5’ 10", and 150 lbs.

Who is going to be leaner?
[/quote]

The twin that manages to chow down on the most carrots will be the leanest. Why is this in the bodybuilding forum?

34

[quote]roybot wrote:
Mcflurry wrote:
Let me try to make it a little more clear:

Take two identical twins (5’ 10" lbs.) for example. Everything about these twins is the same, but twin #2 decides to take up running for 1 hour every morning. Instead of eating the same amount as he did before, twin #2 decides to compensate for the calories he burnt up on his run by eating more…

Your left with two people, one who decides to maintain his weight through diet (twin #1), and one man who decides to run, and eat extra calories to compensate for it (twin #2).

Your left with two guys (just imagine they have the same genetic structure), both 5’ 10", and 150 lbs.

Who is going to be leaner?

The twin that manages to chow down on the most carrots will be the leanest. Why is this in the bodybuilding forum?

[/quote]

Because bodybuilding is all about losing fat and reading articles/theory/hypothetical comparisons, right?

/sarcasm

35

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
roybot wrote:
Mcflurry wrote:
Let me try to make it a little more clear:

Take two identical twins (5’ 10" lbs.) for example. Everything about these twins is the same, but twin #2 decides to take up running for 1 hour every morning. Instead of eating the same amount as he did before, twin #2 decides to compensate for the calories he burnt up on his run by eating more…

Your left with two people, one who decides to maintain his weight through diet (twin #1), and one man who decides to run, and eat extra calories to compensate for it (twin #2).

Your left with two guys (just imagine they have the same genetic structure), both 5’ 10", and 150 lbs.

Who is going to be leaner?

The twin that manages to chow down on the most carrots will be the leanest. Why is this in the bodybuilding forum?

Because bodybuilding is all about losing fat and reading articles/theory/hypothetical comparisons, right?

/sarcasm

[/quote]

I really want to know though…are the people coming up with word problems like this looking anything like someone who lifts a shit load of weight?

Are we getting these exhibitions of theory and imagination from people who have big muscles…or is this just the game little guys play so no one notices how small their arms are?

36

I feel it is a good, clear-cut, straightfarward question…who’s asking it is a moot point. I am not advising anyone.

If you don’t have any answers or personal experience on the matter, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t post in my thread.

I’ve got a few good responses from people with personal experience on the matter, and I don’t want this thread to get side tracked.

Thank you.

37

Here you go:

http://www.biblelife.org/exercise.htm

Kind of a cheesy site, but ignore the religious component- this page focuses solely on diet and cardio and provides facts to back up the point of view. I post it because it has a nice breakdown on runners who have died while running or had heart attacks at young ages. People who do long duration steady state cardio over the long term are not necessarily in good health. That’s a LOT of extra wear and tear on your heart.

Use cardio (or “energy systems work”) to get off bodyfat if you want (although not necessary) for spurts of cutting or leaning out. As an all-the-time thing, I think it’s not so good.

38

[quote]trextacy wrote:
Here you go:

http://www.biblelife.org/exercise.htm

Kind of a cheesy site, but ignore the religious component- this page focuses solely on diet and cardio and provides facts to back up the point of view.

I post it because it has a nice breakdown on runners who have died while running or had heart attacks at young ages. People who do long duration steady state cardio over the long term are not necessarily in good health. That’s a LOT of extra wear and tear on your heart.

Use cardio (or “energy systems work”) to get off bodyfat if you want (although not necessary) for spurts of cutting or leaning out. As an all-the-time thing, I think it’s not so good.[/quote]

Right on, thanks for the link, I’m reading it as I type:)

Peace

39

[quote]Mcflurry wrote:
I feel it is a good, clear-cut, straightfarward question…who’s asking it is a moot point. I am not advising anyone.

If you don’t have any answers or personal experience on the matter, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t post in my thread.

I’ve got a few good responses from people with personal experience on the matter, and I don’t want this thread to get side tracked.

Thank you.[/quote]

It’s kind of a moronic question that has no application to real life. Your identical twin scenario is impossible to say for sure. But the exerciser is likely to be a little leaner due to elevated metabolism and better insulin sensitivity. And healthier too. So what?

Are you considering 3 options: a. sedentary, b. cardio only, or c. cardio and weights. Option c is very obviously what you should be doing. The rest is all academic. But not interesting enough as far as exercise theory or nutrition goes to make it an interesting dicussion.

40

[quote]Mcflurry wrote:
This is something I’ve always wondered, but could never really find an answer (probably because everyone is different).

I know the general consensus among the majority of people these days regarding medium/low intensity cardio, is that it is simply a means of burning calories (as well as strengthening the heart and lungs).

I do agree that cardio like running or biking is going to build little (if any) muscle, unless you were previously a very sedentary person to start with.

I do “feel” however, that if you take someone who is on the smaller side (say 5’ 10" 150 lbs.) who does not participate in “much” physically (no cardio, weight training etc…), and then you take the same guy at the same weight who runs his ass off for an hour a day, that the guy who runs for an hour a day is going to be considerable leaner then the guy who doesn’t.

For example, my uncle was always on the skinny side (5’ 10" 150 lbs.), but ever since he starting running miles, he looks like he is carved out of stone, but his weight has remained the same. He was always reasonably lean (12% or so), but now he looks well under 10% bf for sure.

Now I’ve also heard of people who lost a lot of muscle doing cardio (usually bigger guys).

What are your guys’s experiences with doing cardio (running in particular), and body fat?
[/quote]

when i started in 2003, 200lbs ish of skinnyfat, i ran and ran and did resistance training (to say lifting weights would be an exaggeration). guess what, i dropped bodyfat and didn’t lose muscle, in fact gained a bit because i was a beginner.
moving on a bit, started weight training harder and upped the calories and kept up the cardio and…
gained very little.
moving on a bit more; upped the calories some more, decreased the cardio a little, gained much better.
decided to cut, increased the cardio and…
lost all the gains.

present day. dropped the cardio.increased calories some more, got stronger, beginning to move some weight now. gained 17 lbs in 12 weeks.

conclusion,well draw your own.

(cardio in this case was running, 30-40 mins ish, not jogging. you don’t need to be a big guy to lose muscle.)