…newchristian.org.
…do you even understand the concept of objective? unbiased? disinterested?
No? Ok Zeb. This is too much fun.
The Zeb circus is great fun for everyone! Don’t worry, as much as he wants to portray you as a hater for disagreeing with him, it won’t be long before he starts spewing the negative personal attacks for which he’s famous. All in the name of Christian love, of course 
Problem is Zebs bs is, in my experience, par for the course with christians.
For example, his claim that atheists are “just as closeminded” as christians, that we “strongly adhere to our ideas” but we “get a free pass”.
Here’s why I’m an atheist: I’ve never seen what I consider to be good reason to believe in God.
I dont need good reason NOT to believe in God. Without good reason to believe in something, I don’t believe in it.
I don’t need good reason to believe martians follow me around all day and I cant see them because they’re always behind me. Etc, etc.
This is known as the “burden of proof” fallacy. The burden of proof always rests on the person claiming that something is.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
If you selectively choose what evidence you wish to accept,[/quote] I look at all of the evidence my friend. [quote]then you have no right to engage in a serious debate with anyone about this. If you choose to ignore fossil records showing that man evolved from apes while clutching to archeological digs that support stories in the Bible (but by no means proving that any of it’s central claims are true) then you have no right to say other people are closed minded.[/quote]
Don’t tell me…don’t tell me…another atheist right? WOW, this place is rotten with foreign atheists lately (not that you’re foreign).
[/quote]
You don’t accept all evidence. That’s the key difference. Anything that might shit on your view of the world is swiftly discarded.
You are what is wrong with America.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
This is known as the “burden of proof” fallacy. The burden of proof always rests on the person claiming that something is.[/quote]
The beauty of modern discourse is that we seem to be shifting toward a paradigm that says if you can claim something without evidence, I can dismiss it without evidence.
I’d like to think this type of thinking will arrest our slide toward the abyss.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Problem is Zebs bs is, in my experience, par for the course with christians.
For example, his claim that atheists are “just as closeminded” as christians, that we “strongly adhere to our ideas” but we “get a free pass”.
Here’s why I’m an atheist: I’ve never seen what I consider to be good reason to believe in God.
I dont need good reason NOT to believe in God. Without good reason to believe in something, I don’t believe in it.
I don’t need good reason to believe martians follow me around all day and I cant see them because they’re always behind me. Etc, etc.
This is known as the “burden of proof” fallacy. The burden of proof always rests on the person claiming that something is.[/quote]
Exactly. You can’t escape the burden of proof by disguising your ignorance with a fancy word like faith. The problem with “just believing” in the absence of evidence is that it emboldens the belief in anything, no matter how fanciful.
As Thomas Jefferson put it:
Bare in mind that we all have faith of some sort. One the gems that Pushharder left me with. We have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. Most of us have faith that what we do in life means something.
Humanist put their faith in humanity. It’s still faith. A whole lot of faith if you ask me considering our history. Christians put their faith in God. I think the only atheistic ‘sect’ that doesn’t use faith is the hedonist/nihilist. And quite frankly, I fear a society run with hedonistic/nihilistic types of values as much the Christians here have posited.
Essentially, I think faith of some sort (for atheist/religious/spiritual/agnostic/anyone) is necessary for a healthy individual, social group, state, society, and humanity as a whole.
Faith is the absence of evidence. The rising of the sun is measurable and repeatable, but the belief in supernatural beings is not.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Bare in mind that we all have faith of some sort. One the gems that Pushharder left me with. We have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. Most of us have faith that what we do in life means something.
Humanist put their faith in humanity. It’s still faith. A whole lot of faith if you ask me considering our history. Christians put their faith in God. I think the only atheistic ‘sect’ that doesn’t use faith is the hedonist/nihilist. And quite frankly, I fear a society run with hedonistic/nihilistic types of values as much the Christians here have posited.
Essentially, I think faith of some sort (for atheist/religious/spiritual/agnostic/anyone) is necessary for a healthy individual, social group, state, society, and humanity as a whole.[/quote]
Well said, well said. Humanity depends on faith to flourish, for order. Faith that some acts or intrinsically evil or good. Faith in the fidelity of friend or loved one. Even more, faith in the ‘goodness’ of strangers. Faith that we aren’t simply an extremely complex domino pattern–our ‘choices,’ actions, and thoughts simply the output of chain reactions instead of free will. Faith that restraining ourselves, governing ourselves, in order to leave a surplus of order and prosperity for future generations is the “good” thing to do.
While the West will–in it’s increasing dysfunction–diminish in number for a time, the devout will multiply in number, bearing witness to faith. So, worry not!
…faith that Allah will bless you with eternal life for following the teachings of the holy Quran.
[quote]forlife wrote:
…faith that Allah will bless you with eternal life for following the teachings of the holy Quran.[/quote]
Well, no, if that’s directed towards me. Or, maybe you’re a muslim and you’re speaking for yourself?
Just making a point. You can rationalize faith however you want, but it doesn’t make the object of your faith real. See Thomas Jefferson’s quote that I provided earlier.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Just making a point. You can rationalize faith however you want, but it doesn’t make the object of your faith real. See Thomas Jefferson’s quote that I provided earlier.[/quote]
My faith doesn’t make the Son, Jesus Christ, real. I simply have faith that he is real. Much like I have faith that the evil of rape is real, and not subjective matter of human opinion or emotion.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Bare in mind that we all have faith of some sort. One the gems that Pushharder left me with. We have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. Most of us have faith that what we do in life means something.
Humanist put their faith in humanity. It’s still faith. A whole lot of faith if you ask me considering our history. Christians put their faith in God. I think the only atheistic ‘sect’ that doesn’t use faith is the hedonist/nihilist. And quite frankly, I fear a society run with hedonistic/nihilistic types of values as much the Christians here have posited.
Essentially, I think faith of some sort (for atheist/religious/spiritual/agnostic/anyone) is necessary for a healthy individual, social group, state, society, and humanity as a whole.[/quote]
This makes for a nice cute and fuzzy greeting card and everything, but… what you’re doing here is taking one word, “faith,” and applying it to a broad spectrum of thought processes including assumption, suspicion, expectation, etc… In the process you’re allowing a specific application of the word “faith” to color all of these other concepts with a slightly religious hue.
Fuck that. I seek to live a life devoid of faith and belief. These are words/concepts that by their nature limit our understanding of ourselves and the world we live in.
I, for one, do not have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. I know it will most likely rise tomorrow.
[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Bare in mind that we all have faith of some sort. One the gems that Pushharder left me with. We have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. Most of us have faith that what we do in life means something.
Humanist put their faith in humanity. It’s still faith. A whole lot of faith if you ask me considering our history. Christians put their faith in God. I think the only atheistic ‘sect’ that doesn’t use faith is the hedonist/nihilist. And quite frankly, I fear a society run with hedonistic/nihilistic types of values as much the Christians here have posited.
Essentially, I think faith of some sort (for atheist/religious/spiritual/agnostic/anyone) is necessary for a healthy individual, social group, state, society, and humanity as a whole.[/quote]
This makes for a nice cute and fuzzy greeting card and everything, but… what you’re doing here is taking one word, “faith,” and applying it to a broad spectrum of thought processes including assumption, suspicion, expectation, etc… In the process you’re allowing a specific application of the word “faith” to color all of these other concepts with a slightly religious hue.
Fuck that. I seek to live a life devoid of faith and belief. These are words/concepts that by their nature limit our understanding of ourselves and the world we live in.
I, for one, do not have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. I know it will most likely rise tomorrow. [/quote]
Agreed. He’s confusing faith with reason.
I have reason to think the sun will rise tomorrow. The reason being it rose (or, if we want to get technical, appeared to rise) yesterday and the day before and the day before, for as long as I’ve been alive, and, as far as I have reason to believe, long before I was alive.
I also have no reason to believe any of the contributing factors to the rising of the sun have changed or will change before tomorrow morning.
Therefore, using my ability to reason I conclude that the sun will come up tomorrow.
A comparison between that thought process and “faith” in Sky Wizard is laughable.
Ya’ll looked at the one bad example while ignoring the rest of post… I’m disappointed now 
This thread never fails me.
[quote]forlife wrote:
…faith that Allah will bless you with eternal life for following the teachings of the holy Quran.[/quote]
Bingo. I always like to ask christians; “why not the quran?” and have yet to receive an answer at all.
[quote]Magicpunch wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
…faith that Allah will bless you with eternal life for following the teachings of the holy Quran.[/quote]
Bingo. I always like to ask christians; “why not the quran?” and have yet to receive an answer at all.[/quote]Because the Qur’an is unbibilical.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Magicpunch wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
…faith that Allah will bless you with eternal life for following the teachings of the holy Quran.[/quote]
Bingo. I always like to ask christians; “why not the quran?” and have yet to receive an answer at all.[/quote]Because the Qur’an is unbibilical.
[/quote]
The bible is unquran, right? If it’s all based on faith alone, what basis do you have for claiming your faith in the bible reflects reality any better than a muslim’s faith in the quran?