Atheism-o-phobia Part 2

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:
the point no one seems to get is if some of the bible is symbolic…how does anyone know which parts to take as literal? ridiculous[/quote]

How much of the Bible have you actually read?

Be honest.[/quote]

I think its irrelevant…but Ive read it…just the one time was enough for me though.

Being so confident, Im hoping you at least have some kind of university education… [/quote]

I asked you to be honest. How are people supposed to take your silly arguments seriously when you can’t even be honest?

And you want to start measuring dicks? I have quite the extensive background in education, experience, accomplishment and ability. I doubt you want to go down that road with me.

It doesn’t matter, though, any argument should be able to stand on its own merits. Somebody with a university education should know that.

162

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:

worst analogies everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr- try again…

to lighten the mood -

[/quote]

So instead of engaging me in debate and countering my points, you act like a child, avoid the hard work of pointing out why the analogies don’t work, and post a silly video as a distraction that you’ve already posted before.

Yeah, you’re quite the formidable opponent in the debating ring.[/quote]

If you think you 'engage" anyone in debates you are very mistaken. what you do is berate to the point of frustration and the opposition gets sick of arguing with stupidity…

I didn’t reply to save you the embarrassment and by all means correct me if im wrong (im sure you will)… But by the analogies you just wrote - your saying that which is written in the bible shouldn’t be taken at face value…Your saying it requires the interpretation from an authority such as the church…So YOUR beliefs are not coming from what YOU read…So the need for you or me to read a bible is essentially omitted…
[/quote]

You didn’t reply to save embarrassing me. There’s that dishonesty again. Be careful, you’re going to come to be known as a liar as well as a boor around these parts.

When you went to those university science classes, did you read nothing but scientific studies and raw data and draw all of your own conclusions yourself? Were your professors there merely to provide you with the information, but not to offer any guidance or conclusions? Did you start with zero assumptions and just dig right into a mountain of data and reach all of the present beliefs you currently possess without the assistance of any guide or teacher or scientist or thinker who has come before you?

Seriously don’t worry about embarrassing me, you’ll be better off not replying to save further embarrassing yourself.

163

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:
So the need for you or me to read a bible is essentially omitted…
[/quote]

No. You should read it in the context of what each book/piece (since the bible is collection) deserves. The laity should be reading the scripture every day. Now, if they have the time and inclination to understand the knowledge and ways of the ancient hebrews, they’re free to do so. However, the church does this work already.

The first rule, the bible isn’t a ‘book.’ It is a collection of inspired religious writings brought together. Second rule, it isn’t a science book. The hebrew people wouldn’t even begin to understand the big bang, evolution, etc… The books are about God and his relationship to us, as shared with people many, many, many years removed from us. They were the original audience, and the writings reflect just as much. Lastly, this collection of books wasn’t the deposit of faith left by Christ or his apostles. It was the Church.

Honest question, were you an evangelical type of christian before becoming an atheist? You seem determined to hold an evangelical theological position, on which you then base your atheistic argument. I’m just wondering if this is perhaps due to a background in a sola scriptura type of denomination.

164

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:
So the need for you or me to read a bible is essentially omitted…
[/quote]

No. You should read it in the context of what each book/piece (since the bible is collection) deserves. The laity should be reading the scripture every day. Now, if they have the time and inclination to understand the knowledge and ways of the ancient hebrews, they’re free to do so. However, the church does this work already.

The first rule, the bible isn’t a ‘book.’ It is a collection of inspired religious writings brought together. Second rule, it isn’t a science book. The hebrew people wouldn’t even begin to understand the big bang, evolution, etc… The books are about God and his relationship to us, as shared people many, many, many years removed from us. They were the original audience, and the writings reflect just as much. Lastly, this collection of books wasn’t the deposit of faith left by christ or his 12 apostles. It was the Church.
[/quote]

Excellent explanation.

165

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:

worst analogies everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr- try again…

to lighten the mood -

[/quote]

So instead of engaging me in debate and countering my points, you act like a child, avoid the hard work of pointing out why the analogies don’t work, and post a silly video as a distraction that you’ve already posted before.

Yeah, you’re quite the formidable opponent in the debating ring.[/quote]

If you think you 'engage" anyone in debates you are very mistaken. what you do is berate to the point of frustration and the opposition gets sick of arguing with stupidity…

I didn’t reply to save you the embarrassment and by all means correct me if im wrong (im sure you will)… But by the analogies you just wrote - your saying that which is written in the bible shouldn’t be taken at face value…Your saying it requires the interpretation from an authority such as the church…So YOUR beliefs are not coming from what YOU read…So the need for you or me to read a bible is essentially omitted…
[/quote]

You didn’t reply to save embarrassing me. There’s that dishonesty again. Be careful, you’re going to come to be known as a liar as well as a boor around these parts.

When you went to those university science classes, did you read nothing but scientific studies and raw data and draw all of your own conclusions yourself? Were your professors there merely to provide you with the information, but not to offer any guidance or conclusions? Did you start with zero assumptions and just dig right into a mountain of data and reach all of the present beliefs you currently possess without the assistance of any guide or teacher or scientist or thinker who has come before you?

Seriously don’t worry about embarrassing me, you’ll be better off not replying to save further embarrassing yourself.

[/quote]

You have just unintentionally proven my point that you do not debate - you struggle to link your arguments and thus they come across without any potency.

The way you write - it feels like you miss the essence of how scientific reports are written… Yes people make assumptions and interpret their data - but usually the information isn’t taken as “fact” until it can be replicated with some form of reliability/validity…Hence a professor of mine might say “x=y and for this “…” reason - now go and do your own research and come to your conclusion…”

Once again youve managed to go off topic on a stupid tangent/attempt to berate me…I cant remember one post of yours that hasnt had some kind of derogatory notions…

and fuck ooooooofff with your comparing dicks jeeeeesus you’re insufferable…

166

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:
So the need for you or me to read a bible is essentially omitted…
[/quote]

The hebrew people wouldn’t even begin to understand the big bang, evolution, etc…

[/quote]

Does that not worry you? They didnt understand so they fell upon a super human character that could answer their deepest insecurities of not knowing where they came from…religion is a ancient theory based upon no solid evidence.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Honest question, were you an evangelical type of christian before becoming an atheist? You seem determined to hold an evangelical theological position, on which you then base your atheistic argument. I’m just wondering if this is perhaps due to a background in a sola scriptura type of denomination.[/quote]

Nope I wasn’t brought up with any church - and decided I was technically atheist in my late-teens after I cared enough to read about the topics. I have only been trying to get across the inconsistencies and how vague the bible is…

167

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:
So the need for you or me to read a bible is essentially omitted…
[/quote]

The hebrew people wouldn’t even begin to understand the big bang, evolution, etc…

[/quote]

Does that not worry you? They didnt understand so they fell upon a super human character that could answer their deepest insecurities of not knowing where they came from…religion is a ancient theory based upon no solid evidence.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Honest question, were you an evangelical type of christian before becoming an atheist? You seem determined to hold an evangelical theological position, on which you then base your atheistic argument. I’m just wondering if this is perhaps due to a background in a sola scriptura type of denomination.[/quote]

Nope I wasn’t brought up with any church - and decided I was technically atheist in my late-teens after I cared enough to read about the topics. I have only been trying to get across the inconsistencies and how vague the bible is…
[/quote]

Well, there is little consistency between all the denominations and it is hard to grasp that which they believe specially the protestants who you can argue one thing and turn to another person and get another argument that contradicts.

However, if you wish to learn what the one church that does not change its dogmas or truths in what it believes, I offer you five books you can get off the internet probably and if not at the Library:

Bonaventura: The Minds Road to God
Summa Contra Gentiles: Book One: God
Orthodoxy
The Divine Comedy: Inferno, Purgatorio, and Paradiso
The Confessions of Saint Augustine

As well, other suggested texts are Summa Theologica by Thomas Aquinas and all the dogmas from all the councils.

I know most people are used to democracy in America, but the fact is that the Catholic Church is not a democracy, but a sort of monarchy. We don’t just make up our own rules.

168

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:
I cant remember one post of yours that hasnt had some kind of derogatory notions…
[/quote]

It’s because you refuse to debate in good faith.

And I think many of the posters here will agree with me, including the atheist posters.

169

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:
I cant remember one post of yours that hasnt had some kind of derogatory notions…
[/quote]

It’s because you refuse to debate in good faith.

And I think many of the posters here will agree with me, including the atheist posters.[/quote]

what? I haven’t debated? - You dont reply to the points I put forward…usually you say something like “you’re and idiot” then pose your own questions in response, that sometimes arent even related…

Maybe I came across a big strong at the start and offended you? but at least I respond to the arguments you make…

hopefully someones got a new topic because we’re getting no where fast

170

I wouldn’t call what you do debate. Your replies are full of logical fallacies, most notably straw men and red herrings. The straw man thing is the most obvious. You can see it just a few posts up. After it was demonstrated to you that you mistakenly assumed all Christians believed Adam and Eve lived in Jurassic Park, you switched the direction of the argument (red herring) to the idea that, well then, you are wrong because you have to take the Bible literally (ignorant misrepresentation), which then became Catholics are not able to reconcile their beliefs with the so-called realities of science because we believe Adam and Eve were created with a snap of God’s fingers (straw man), which became, well your beliefs don’t come from you because your rely on an authority (straw man and well, duh, circular reasoning when you are speaking with people who’ve identified themselves as members of a religious organization.)

I really think you do not see it. But if you would go back and look, and try and find the original point, the thing you were arguing, that you first stated when you started whatever line of reasoning it was, I think you’ll have a lot of trouble finding the connecting thread that logically leads from premise to conclusion. But this has been happening since I’ve come in on this thread many many pages ago.

You’ll start with a statement, you’ll be proven either wrong, or misinformed, or that you nor I cannot know anyway so you have no business being smug, but you will never, ever admit that you were mistaken, or off. You just twist the argument off into a different direction, and when you get called out on it, you act like the victim, saying that wasn’t what you meant, and we just don’t get it, and on and on.

And now there is that lie hanging there about having read the Bible. And you are stuck, because if you admit you lied, well, what else are you lying about? But you are lying about that. I know it. And you know it.

171

krsoneeeee you must feel like you have been talking to a brick wall! How do they know you havent read the bible? Maybe God told them you didnt?

There are so many religons and even people who have the same religon can not agree on everything, I think anyone is crazy to think there religon is the one. I usually say to people who believe “I just believe in one less god than you.”

172

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:
I cant remember one post of yours that hasnt had some kind of derogatory notions…
[/quote]

It’s because you refuse to debate in good faith.

And I think many of the posters here will agree with me, including the atheist posters.[/quote]

I concurrrrrrrrr. He would rather tell me about his degree in science or address my off remark about me looking at books then to actually refute or agree with my claims.

173

[quote]Rza UK wrote:
krsoneeeee you must feel like you have been talking to a brick wall! How do they know you havent read the bible? Maybe God told them you didnt?

There are so many religons and even people who have the same religon can not agree on everything, I think anyone is crazy to think there religon is the one. I usually say to people who believe “I just believe in one less god than you.” [/quote]

Looks like you’re in good company, krsoneeeee.

I don’t know, I know this is going to draw yet another accusation of my downright rude disposition, but I did make a rule for myself, and I am happy to say that I followed this rule, so if anything I am not a hypocrite. The rule was, one should be able to at least spell the word “religion” before jumping into a debate about it.

174

[quote]Rza UK wrote:
krsoneeeee you must feel like you have been talking to a brick wall! How do they know you havent read the bible? Maybe God told them you didnt?

There are so many religons and even people who have the same religon can not agree on everything, I think anyone is crazy to think there religon is the one. I usually say to people who believe “I just believe in one less god than you.” [/quote]

Haha, this cracks me up. How about the fact that every other religion has been established by people who say this is the way, and Catholics follow a religion established by someone that said I am the way. Big difference, either we are following a perpetual liar, a crazy man, or he is what he says he is. You can ignore the decision, but you’d be a fool.

175

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Rza UK wrote:
krsoneeeee you must feel like you have been talking to a brick wall! How do they know you havent read the bible? Maybe God told them you didnt?

There are so many religons and even people who have the same religon can not agree on everything, I think anyone is crazy to think there religon is the one. I usually say to people who believe “I just believe in one less god than you.” [/quote]

Looks like you’re in good company, krsoneeeee.

I don’t know, I know this is going to draw yet another accusation of my downright rude disposition, but I did make a rule for myself, and I am happy to say that I followed this rule, so if anything I am not a hypocrite. The rule was, one should be able to at least spell the word “religion” before jumping into a debate about it. [/quote]

My bad on the typo, I dont think its rude. Can I join in now?

176

[quote]Rza UK wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Rza UK wrote:
krsoneeeee you must feel like you have been talking to a brick wall! How do they know you havent read the bible? Maybe God told them you didnt?

There are so many religons and even people who have the same religon can not agree on everything, I think anyone is crazy to think there religon is the one. I usually say to people who believe “I just believe in one less god than you.” [/quote]

Looks like you’re in good company, krsoneeeee.

I don’t know, I know this is going to draw yet another accusation of my downright rude disposition, but I did make a rule for myself, and I am happy to say that I followed this rule, so if anything I am not a hypocrite. The rule was, one should be able to at least spell the word “religion” before jumping into a debate about it. [/quote]

My bad on the typo, I dont think its rude. Can I join in now?[/quote]

Haha. Three of the exact same typos in a row is a helluva coincidence, but sure, welcome to the party.

177

Sigh even though I am not a catholic, Catholicism is the largest denomination in Christianity. Maybe one should read its position on evolution and science before creating straw men that are even strawmen to those who hold a more evangelical position such as myself.

You have used red herrings in such that no christian so far has used the bible to show that God exist, and that disproving the bible in no way disproves the existence of God. You have also committed the genetic fallacy many times an example is you stating “They didnt understand so they fell upon a super human character that could answer their deepest insecurities of not knowing where they came from…religion is a ancient theory based upon no solid evidence.”

It is pointless for us Christians to demonstrate to atheist that if God existed he is most likely the God of the bible. First we have to demonstrate that its more plausible for God to exist than not. And we have argued that stance in quite a few different ways through different variants of cosmological and moral arguments i.e. an if then statement saying if the premises are true then the conclusion logically follows. If you want to show that Gods existence is less likely you use logic and not fallacies. Only after one accepts the premise that Gods existence is more plausible than not do we go on to argue about his attributes and whether or not he is the God of the bible.

The crazy thing I am stating is that God is knowable through a personal relationship with him(not feelings and emotionalism that are usually regarded as knowing him but an actual relationship.) God has this promise that he reveals himself to those who seek him with all their heart.

178

I quite ofen miss the ‘I’ out of the ‘ion’ must be the way I learned to type. If you want to pick me up on spellings we will be here all day.

179

[quote]Cortes wrote:
I wouldn’t call what you do debate. Your replies are full of logical fallacies, most notably straw men and red herrings. The straw man thing is the most obvious. You can see it just a few posts up. After it was demonstrated to you that you mistakenly assumed all Christians believed Adam and Eve lived in Jurassic Park, you switched the direction of the argument (red herring) to the idea that, well then, you are wrong because you have to take the Bible literally (ignorant misrepresentation), which then became Catholics are not able to reconcile their beliefs with the so-called realities of science because we believe Adam and Eve were created with a snap of God’s fingers (straw man), which became, well your beliefs don’t come from you because your rely on an authority (straw man and well, duh, circular reasoning when you are speaking with people who’ve identified themselves as members of a religious organization.)

I really think you do not see it. But if you would go back and look, and try and find the original point, the thing you were arguing, that you first stated when you started whatever line of reasoning it was, I think you’ll have a lot of trouble finding the connecting thread that logically leads from premise to conclusion. But this has been happening since I’ve come in on this thread many many pages ago.

You’ll start with a statement, you’ll be proven either wrong, or misinformed, or that you nor I cannot know anyway so you have no business being smug, but you will never, ever admit that you were mistaken, or off. You just twist the argument off into a different direction, and when you get called out on it, you act like the victim, saying that wasn’t what you meant, and we just don’t get it, and on and on.

And now there is that lie hanging there about having read the Bible. And you are stuck, because if you admit you lied, well, what else are you lying about? But you are lying about that. I know it. And you know it. [/quote]

wow, youve just described yourself. Youve taken everything I said out of context, as usual. Ive never been proven wrong yet. In fact I struggle to get a coherent reply…

what? Ive read the bible, I just think its bullshit…BTW that was a pretty big misinterpreted assumption you threw out there (classic cortes). I think you should apologise for your sin.

180

[quote]Rza UK wrote:
krsoneeeee you must feel like you have been talking to a brick wall! How do they know you havent read the bible? Maybe God told them you didnt?

There are so many religons and even people who have the same religon can not agree on everything, I think anyone is crazy to think there religon is the one. I usually say to people who believe “I just believe in one less god than you.” [/quote]

Id “like” that if it was facebook haha