[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
obatiger11 wrote:
<<< Yes, he was a legal immigrant. He used his green card, driver’s liscence, and check book as forms of ID to purchase the guns.
I’ll let you find the part where I acknowledged that and clarified that the discussion started before we knew.[/quote]
No need to get pissy!! Just trying to be helpful.
[quote]obatiger11 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
obatiger11 wrote:
<<< Yes, he was a legal immigrant. He used his green card, driver’s liscence, and check book as forms of ID to purchase the guns.
I’ll let you find the part where I acknowledged that and clarified that the discussion started before we knew.
No need to get pissy!! Just trying to be helpful.[/quote]
I misunderstood and apologize accordingly.
when will we know if this guy had a system full of drugs? Im just curious to know if he was whacked out of meth or something?
[quote]analog_kid wrote:
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting_245
Has anyone seen this yet? What a piece of shit. Grow the fuck up.[/quote]
I just don’t believe there weren’t MANY more signs that this kid was completely off his rocker. The way his roommate described him, he was always nuts. He just never hurt anyone before probably because he couldn’t do much physical damage.
He managed to kill professors (who we all know are just mega-rich) random students, and pretty much anyone else who might have run into the crossfire. He compared himself to Jesus Christ? When did Jesus run around killing every heathen in his line of sight?
The worst part is no one will get the chance to yell any of this to him or return any favors when it comes to physical pain.
His family HAD to have known their son was a lunatic.
[quote]Kill’Em All wrote:
when will we know if this guy had a system full of drugs? Im just curious to know if he was whacked out of meth or something?[/quote]
If history is any indicator, I would bet the house that his toxicology report will come back clean.
Im with you in that I would like for them to find gallons of hallucinogens in his system, but that won’t be the case.
We’re going to be left with the fact that a very small minority of the general population are actually this deranged.
Based on what I have seen on those rambling tapes, he actually falls neatly into the profile of a school shooter in the vein of Klebold and Harris
(Columbine). It looks as if he was spotted by a good number of people as someone with the potential for this kind of thing.
Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but there needs to be a more serious look at the entire mental health profession. If anything, there needs to be a little more honesty on their part that our understanding of the human brain/mind is nowhere near as advanced as we think it is.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
His family HAD to have known their son was a lunatic.[/quote]
I would tend to agree with this but you have to consider two possibilities…
2.By the accounts I heard, his family came here dirt poor and seemed to have made a decent life for themselves. His older sister graduated from Princeton. This could simply boil to the old story of poor immigrant families working 16 hours a day 7 days a week to give the next generation a better shot and having tragically missed the development of this monster in the process.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
analog_kid wrote:
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting_245
Has anyone seen this yet? What a piece of shit. Grow the fuck up.
I just don’t believe there weren’t MANY more signs that this kid was completely off his rocker. The way his roommate described him, he was always nuts. He just never hurt anyone before probably because he couldn’t do much physical damage.
He managed to kill professors (who we all know are just mega-rich) random students, and pretty much anyone else who might have run into the crossfire. He compared himself to Jesus Christ? When did Jesus run around killing every heathen in his line of sight?
The worst part is no one will get the chance to yell any of this to him or return any favors when it comes to physical pain.
His family HAD to have known their son was a lunatic.[/quote]
Professor, I don’t always agree with you, but on this post I don’t think anyone could put it better. You summed up all of the emotions I have been feeling these past few days perfectly.
I wish more than anything that when he shot himself he messed up and stayed alive, so we could send him to jail. I hate that my friends will never see justice done in our courts. All I can hope is that they can look down from Heaven and see him rotting in Hell so they can find justice.
[quote]JD430 wrote:
Kill’Em All wrote:
when will we know if this guy had a system full of drugs? Im just curious to know if he was whacked out of meth or something?
If history is any indicator, I would bet the house that his toxicology report will come back clean.
Im with you in that I would like for them to find gallons of hallucinogens in his system, but that won’t be the case.
We’re going to be left with the fact that a very small minority of the general population are actually this deranged.
Based on what I have seen on those rambling tapes, he actually falls neatly into the profile of a school shooter in the vein of Klebold and Harris
(Columbine). It looks as if he was spotted by a good number of people as someone with the potential for this kind of thing.
Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but there needs to be a more serious look at the entire mental health profession. If anything, there needs to be a little more honesty on their part that our understanding of the human brain/mind is nowhere near as advanced as we think it is. [/quote]
Yep.
The trouble, if it can be called that, is that in our system of jurisprudence we don’t prosecute or even compel people to anything (like counseling) based on what they might do. The hard reality is that we have to wait for them to snap before forced action is taken and rightly so.
What’s the alternative? To employ an army of “experts” to begin rounding people up based on their neo psychic predictions? Who thinks any version of that wouldn’t be a thoroughgoing catastrophe?
The following quotes by others (these “others” are professing Christians whom I do not endorse, but their comments are spot on when it shows the utter intellectual and moral bankruptcy of atheism, materialism, etc., etc.):
“One meat bag shot other meat bags. One cog in the evolutionary wheel of life shot other cogs.”
"Virgina Tech was just an event. There was no moral significance to it. Shake up a Pepsi, it explodes. Shake up Cho, he explodes. So what? He’s removed himself from the gene pool. No more problem there. And those he killed…well, they were just too weak to survive in this hostile world. The cold, cruel march of evolution must procede.
Nature red in tooth and claw. You cannot evolve without death. Without competition, there is no pruning the weak; without struggle, there is no strength. Moralizing this–calling it a “tragedy”–has no place in evolution. It’s no more a tragedy than when homo sapiens offed the Neaderthals. It was a dispassionate event, nothing more."
"A law enforcement official who read Cho's note described it Tuesday as a typed, eight-page rant against rich kids and religion."
"Cho indicated in his letter that the end was near and that there was a deed to be done, the official said. He also expressed disappointment in his own religion and made several references to Christianity, the official said.
If Seung-Hui had written that he was told by God to do what he did, atheists would be railing against the “evils of religion.” But, in Seung-Hui, we have a man who dropped religion, and seemed particularly upset or angry with Christianity."
[To the atheists]“There is no God. Then what happened was about as ‘terrible’ as an anteater filling up at the local ant colony.”
[naturalists believe] “Seung-Hui is an evolved meat bag. Holman believes the victims were evolved meat bags.”
[The naturalist/atheist is] "Bertrand Russell’s poster child:
‘Brief and powerless is Man’s life; on him and all his race the slow, sure doom falls pitiless and dark. Blind to good and evil, reckless of destruction, omnipotent matter rolls on its relentless way; for Man, condemned to-day to lose his dearest, to-morrow himself to pass through the gate of darkness, it remains only to cherish, ere yet the blow falls, the lofty thoughts that ennoble his little day; disdaining the coward terrors of the slave of Fate, to worship at the shrine that his own hands have built; undismayed by the empire of chance, to preserve a mind free from the wanton tyranny that rules his outward life; proudly defiant of the irresistible forces that tolerate, for a moment, his knowledge and his condemnation, to sustain alone, a weary but unyielding Atlas, the world that his own ideals have fashioned despite the trampling march of unconscious power’ (Bertrand Russell, A Free Man’s Worship).
[The naturalist/atheist] can stand up to the uncaring cosmos and shake his fists in despair, asserting his own meaning, but for some reason, Cho Seung-Hui cannot do the same. Seung-Hui looked into the ‘gate of darkness’ and saw that omnipotent matter rolls on its way, making Cho’s life ultimately meaningless, and so he acted upon this situation. [What’s the naturalist’s/atheist’s] beef with [their] own worldview?"
[The atheist/naturalist] "need to repeat this before they go to bed: ‘A meat bag killed meat bags. A certain collection of chemicals killed other collections of chemicals. An animal killed other animals.’ They should not only cling to Darwin to ‘fit in’ in the Science classroom, but Darwinism should be applied to ‘times like this.’ Thus Richard Rorty,
‘The idea that one species of organism is, unlike all the others, oriented not just toward its own increated prosperity but toward Truth, is as un-Darwinian as the idea that every human being has a built-in moral compass–a conscience that swings free of both social history and individual luck’ (Richard Rorty, Untruth and Consequences, The New Republic, July 31, 1995, pp. 32-36).
"Furthermore, it’s at times like this when we must strengthen our resolve. Be consistent with our beliefs. Try to think like Momma Nature. Ultimately, no one cares about the victims. Ultimately, what Seung-Hui did, was not objectively, morally wrong. The grand Imperson doesn’t have ‘moral obligations.’ We make them up! So, that what Seung-Hui did is called ‘wrong,’ is actually fantasy. It’s made up. Reject Christianity and its story of the world, you must invent your own story. There is no grand meta-narrative, there’s millions of subjective autobiographies. Windowless monads, without any pre-established harmony. And thus we need to not only affirm this worldview while engaged in polemical debate, but we must hold it when we face ‘times like this.’ We must not cheer the proclamations of the materialist worldview when we are detached from the issues of life, but when we run smack dab into them. Thus materialist Richard Vitzthum:
'Human thought and feeling is the most complex, versatile, adaptive, sensitive, perceptive, creative, purposeful, and voluntaristic product of terrestrial evolution and perhaps cosmic evolution as a whole… It creates all the value and meaning that humans find inside or outside of themselves. The material order outside of human self-enclosure and self-definition is empty of human value and meaning, consisting as it does of an aimless interplay of natural process dictated by invariable physical laws. Its amoral indiscriminateness contrasts sharply with the human compulsion to discriminate and judge. This compulsion evolved from the billions of years of biological adaptation to earth’s environment that transformed simple cells into multicelled animals.
Human thought and feeling is a material offshoot of this very indiscriminateness. It consists of neural events that individually are insensitive, unthinking, and unfeeling as all other basic chemical reactions but that collectively are capable of processing raw electromagnetic signals into emotional and intellectual information. Although the process is not yet well understood, it may consist of computation that mathematically measure incoming arrays of signals against synaptic weightings in the brain’s neural networks…’ (Richard C. Vitzthum’s ‘Materialism: An Affirmative History And Definition,’ Prometheus Books, 1995, pp. 230-232).
So you feel upset about this whole Virginia Tech thing because your individually unfeeling neurons went snap, crackle, and pop. This whole thing wasn’t really wrong. You just had some electromagnetic signals which operate according to laws of physics and biology give of certain physical impulses in yoru body.
These are not right, wrong, or meaningful. It’s the way it is. Seung-Hui had his own electromagnetic signals go off in his head, the results of which ended in what happened in Virginia. And, when the victims died, what happened on [the atheist/materialist/naturalist] worldview?
Well, electromagnetic signals ceased to ‘go off.’ And, all of this was set in motion eons ago by unfeeling and unthinking physical processes. No purpose for it. That’s the way the cookie crumbles. It’s no different than the erosion of the beach cliffs here in Southern California which were also brought about by prior unthinking and unfeeling processes. Cliffs erode, people erode.
Sometimes they take more sand with them than other times. Oh well. THIS IS THE GRAND AND GLORIOUS WORLD VIEW OF THE ATHEIST."
Tribulus
You seem focused on illegal aliens causung problems, but in reality Im sure there are more crimes commited in America by Americans.
Illeagls is a risk factor, so is guns, apparently video games as well. Do we deal with them all? What other risk factors are there?
[quote]extol7extol wrote:
The following quotes by others (these “others” are professing Christians whom I do not endorse, but their comments are spot on when it shows the utter intellectual and moral bankruptcy of atheism, materialism, etc., etc.):
“One meat bag shot other meat bags. One cog in the evolutionary wheel of life shot other cogs.”…
etc, ece-fucking-teria.
You my man are a penis. Just because people do not believe in god does not make them unfeeling robots. What in the blue fuck does atheism have to do with this tragedy.
This was a terrible incident and my heart goes out to all the families that lost their children.
Grow the fuck up extol!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
analog_kid wrote:
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting_245
Has anyone seen this yet? What a piece of shit. Grow the fuck up.
I just don’t believe there weren’t MANY more signs that this kid was completely off his rocker. The way his roommate described him, he was always nuts. He just never hurt anyone before probably because he couldn’t do much physical damage.
He managed to kill professors (who we all know are just mega-rich) random students, and pretty much anyone else who might have run into the crossfire. He compared himself to Jesus Christ? When did Jesus run around killing every heathen in his line of sight?
The worst part is no one will get the chance to yell any of this to him or return any favors when it comes to physical pain.
His family HAD to have known their son was a lunatic.[/quote]
You’ve hit it right on the spot Professor!
I would like to add… all creasy mofo’s like this particular one SHOULD BE restricted to a sanitarium. (BTW are those still around???)
[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
Tribulus
You seem focused on illegal aliens causung problems, but in reality Im sure there are more crimes commited in America by Americans.
Illeagls is a risk factor, so is guns, apparently video games as well. Do we deal with them all? What other risk factors are there? [/quote]
I have only focused on the issue of illegals in this instance because someone else brought it up a few pages ago and it was being wondered why this was even a consideration.
Now that we know this guy was here legally it ISN"T a consideration. Before we knew whether he was or not it was a legitimate question.
I’m going to dig my research on this back up if anybody,s interested, but illegal aliens, hello, people who have absolutely no right having the soles of their feet on my soil, in essence, individual foreign invaders, commit an astronomically disproportionate number of violent crimes RELATIVE TO THEIR NUMBERS.
I REFUSE in no uncertain terms to apologize for demanding that people who want to live in my country do it in a law abiding way. To dispel, for the last time, any lingering suspicions, I DO NOT CARE what color or nationality anybody is.
I’m willing to gamble on anybody with the decency to follow our rules. If, as in the case of the VT shooter, we miss somebody, that is something that can never be totally guaranteed against.
I repeat again as well. Guns were 100 times easier to get 50 years ago. You could buy them at hardware stores as easily as a hammer and we had an infinitesimal amount of violent crime compared to what we have now with all these idiotic gun control measures.
Further, to blame movies, music or games is so preposterous as to defy intelligent response. What, come on folks, what could be more gratuitously violent than the Three Stooges or Looney Toons which were aimed directly at younger audiences and once again we had practically NO violent crime back then compared today.
NO, people are the problem, bad people, of whatever race and the fact we are focusing on everything in the world, but that, further reinforces my belief that this once great nation is in a tragic downward spiral from which it will never recover.
[quote]obatiger11 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
What pisses me off is that these motherfuckers always off themselves and avoid punishment.
That cocksucker deserved to be tortured for a couple years… but instead he gets to off himself.
I HATE that.
Agreed.
I agree as well. This bastard should have been tortured for years. It wouldn’t cost that much. Chain the SOB to a table in a shed in the middle of nowhere and everyday find another way of making him suffer. He got off easy by killing himself while parents, friends, and relatives have to suffer for the rest of their lives wondering why some wacko douchebag shot their loved ones.
Has anybody seen the videos he sent to the news stations? It sounds like this guy just did it for attention and for some sort of sick/twisted poetic justice. He says that the people he killed had a million chances to save themselves for what he was going to do to them. Yet everyone who was interviewed by the news (ie the killers suite mate) said that the killer kept to himself and when ppl tried to say “hello” to him he wouldn’t even speak. Why is it that these fuckups always blame everyone else for their own inability to socially cope?
And for those who want to blame school officials, I just don’t think you can. They thought this was an isolated incident. As someone earlier pointed out, when there is a shooting in a city or town they don’t shut down the 10-20 blocks surrounding that area. Plus, you can’t have an emergency action plan for psycho’s like this.
He could have easily positioned himself in an area and waited for everyone to come out of classrooms and buildings and then just started firing, maybe even having the oppurtunity of killing more people.
Just my opinion.
[/quote]
Some of this is sort of true. however, I have personally witnessed blocking off certain areas, road blocks and such to keep the general populace from harm and to catch the suspect.
IMO, they really dropped the ball in this situation.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
obatiger11 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
obatiger11 wrote:
<<< Yes, he was a legal immigrant. He used his green card, driver’s liscence, and check book as forms of ID to purchase the guns.
I’ll let you find the part where I acknowledged that and clarified that the discussion started before we knew.
No need to get pissy!! Just trying to be helpful.
I misunderstood and apologize accordingly.[/quote]
Apology accepted. Thank You.
[quote]extol7extol wrote:
The following quotes by others (these “others” are professing Christians whom I do not endorse, but their comments are spot on when it shows the utter intellectual and moral bankruptcy of atheism, materialism, etc., etc.):
“One meat bag shot other meat bags. One cog in the evolutionary wheel of life shot other cogs.”
Sometimes they take more sand with them than other times. Oh well. THIS IS THE GRAND AND GLORIOUS WORLD VIEW OF THE ATHEIST."[/quote]
IF any athiests out there actually hold these views, using them to judge other athiests would be like using a Fred Phelps sermon to judge all of Christianity.
I know a lot of people who don’t believe in God, and I saw several of them shed tears along with religious friends over this.
Saying that atheists don’t care is bullshit.
Like what this guy says:
http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/18/where-is-atheism-when-bad-things-happen/
We’re here, and we’re sad. What happened was a tragedy, and the people at Va. Tech are in our thoughts.
There is no justification for what this kid did. However, the recent revelations that he was teased, beat-up and made fun of because of his shyness and his accent make him more understandable. This seems to be a recurring theme in almost all of these school shootings.
The perpertrators almost exclusively seem to be young men who were different from other kids and hassled about it. Obviously some kids have been getting bullied since the beginning of time. I dont know if there is some meaningful way that school officials can intervene and help
stop the bullying (since I imagine a lof ot it happens at school).
I read that even in university he was made to get up and read a written assignment that he had done. He spoke in his unusual voice and he was jeered at and told to go back to China (another instance of American students’ brilliant knowledge of geography).
This goes a long way in explaining his actions.
As opposed to spending more time on the deranged psychopath who perpetrated this obscenity, I recommend reading the following article to get a feeling for what the victims experienced:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
<<< His family HAD to have known their son was a lunatic.[/quote]
I don’t know necessarily about being a lunatic, but there does now seem to be enough warning signs in his past to where MAYBE something could’ve been done. I still don’t know what because plenty of people have the same indicators and don’t go on shooting sprees.
I dunno, I really don’t.