He CL…the private labs will cut you orders for any blood test you want. Check out DiscountedLab.com and take a look at the array of tests available to you. Once you order a test you’ll get Dr’s orders in your email that you can take to Labcorp and they’ll run them for you. It really couldn’t be easier.
Good luck!
Take care of your business and getting your practice set up (or whatever else you need to take care of). You’ll be missed that’s for sure but your chair will be waiting for you when you come back.
Cheers Brother.
Thanks @yubs I live in BFE and was trying to get them done locally. The prick (aka doctor) has the ability to do it, but he won’t! I went by and talked to him today and it ended with me saying… that’s okay, I’ll just go die, Thank you! How hard could it be to get thyroid numbers? It not like I am asking for heroine. The next closest place is almost 90 miles away. I’m just going to have to deal with it.
Looks really uncomfortable!
Hi guys 
Quick question we had one endo here who proposed the following cycle which could be done every 3-4 months and gave the quickest recovery and thus perfectly for someone who is not planning to cruise and blast.
6 weeks
250 primo
250 test-e
He also mentioned on those dosages there is no need to do a pct for 4 weeks and 14 days of clomid 50mg is sufficient.
Anyone ever heard about a cycle like this?
The thought proces behind the dosages and time and such was to exceed your own natural limit a bit but not by a huge amount to increase the chance of keeping everything/most of the gains after the cycle.
He put some clients on it and the average lean body mass gain was around 8-10 lbs 2 months after pct. He does not sell steroids nor does he have any conflicting interest with people taking these cycles.
Which endocrinologist?
I don’t see why this cycle wouldn’t work. I don’t buy into the whole long ester being used for 10 wks BS. The different in Cmax and Cmin in wk 4 vs wk 8 is not that significant, + the body downregulates AR over time (during cycle) during which gainz eventually taper out.
There’s only one endocrinologist on here, but yea you’re proposed cycle seems pretty cool actually.
If you’re paranoid about the ester crap you can always use oral primo, relatively low oral bioavailability means a higher dose will need to be employed though.
Natural limit of muscle accruation will be far surpassed on you’re proposed plan, that’s 500mg/wk (hormone wise), the test should get you to somewhat supra/pharmacological concentrations and the primo is another anabolic added on top of what will already be somewhat supra levels of T
Thanks for your response!
Sorry I did not mean this community but my personal community.
I will test this cycle than, have done 12 weeks of cycling and did not liked it.
It isn’t optimal, but in the way of a quicker recovery it probably works
Are you telling me you’re area has an endocrinologist prescribing this?
Like writing out scripts for test and primo for people to gain LBM? Without medical pathology of any sort? That’s very progressive
Ok…gotcha. I wasn’t aware of the BFE issue. Hang in there girl, we’re all pulling for you! Maybe look at scheduling something round a time you’re not in BFE to have the labs done.
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Nice!
The cycle is fine the pct is not.
It doesn’t matter if you run a 2 week cycle or a 16 week cycle your pct still needs to be 4 weeks minimum. The shutdown from 2 weeks looks the same as the shutdown from 16 weeks.
Disclaimer : I say the cycle is fine but I do not think its ideal especially for primo and test E. First of all that’s a low dose of primo I think your wasting your money there. And as far as the test e goes sure you will see some gains but they won’t be optimal.
I think you will be very disappointed if you run a cycle like that. Especially with a long ester like Test E. At 6 weeks when the cycle ends you will just be stabilized. Maybe with propionate but even then you will be disappointed. You will shut down in the first 2 to 3 weeks. End of story. If you want to cycle by all means to ahead but dont go through all the trouble for sub par results.
Guys, I have a question I can’t seem to find answer to by googling…
- Does Trenbolone (any ester as it does not mater I think) deplete your body of both intracellular and extracellular water or just extracellular?
- If it does deplete intracellular, taking for example staple BB supplement creatine seems to be pointless? As I take it year round.
Good question, you’d have to go by anecdotal reports as there is no literature that exists discussing many of the mechanisms of trenbone (it’s effects on the body), currently we are limited to a few animal models and to my knowledge nothing currently exists demonstrating trenbolones effect on fluid balance.
I don’t think any AAS in particular legitimate decrease the body of fluid retention as most steroids (besides nandrolone, in which it effects a similar pathway)
All AAS dysregulate aldosterone secretion/function via inhibition of 11b hydroxylase gene (which is involved with P450 enzymes and is thus involved in the catalyzation and metabolism of lipids and steroids, this is a very simplistic explanation but theoretically all AAS will increase sodium retention thus water depletion (both extra and intracellular) at the same time with AAS is theoretically impossible.
Nandrolone inhibits 21 hydroxylase
Creatine is a sweet supplement, I don’t take it personally however literature shows its quite effective, good for cardiac function, strength and LBM gains (which makes sense if you understand the mechanism of how it works)
There’s also 11-HSD inhibition (and overall cortisol inhibition that I’d assume trenbolone would be very strong), cortisol inhibition would decrease fluid retention, 11b -HSD inhibition would increase fluid retention, other mechanisms etc. Very complicated, water retention isn’t nesecarily a bad thing, extreme extracellular water retention will be bad for aesthetics though
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Wow, you’re the legend . Thanks for explaining, I too think that tren water depletion is more cortisol related, but what is still unclear to me is how deca being nandrolone is causing the opposite effect? Is it because 11HSD is not effected by other nandrolones except tren?
11b-HSD would in theory increase cortisol induced water retention you see because 11b-HSD(2) inhibition inhibits the conversion of (active) cortisol to (inactive) cortisone, however given that cortisol (concentrations) are probably crushed on Tren, that is insignificant.
Tren’s “look” probably comes from potential glycogen storage, stimulation of lipolysis (rapid fat burning while in an anabolic state thus giving a hard, muscular look), water manipulation (chemically inducing fluid retention in the right areas can make a huge difference) and more.
Many mechanisms behind AAS aren’t properly understood due to a lack of literature surrounding these agents, for one to understand water retention (esp hormone induced), one needs to understand how the kidneys function, part of nandrolone’s water retaining properties may relate to the fact that it significantly induces sodium reabsorption in the kidneys, we know this to be somewhat the case with testosterone, 21 hydroxylase inhibition induced by nandrolone, excess 21 hydroxylase inhibition may cause aldosterone dysregulation (once again) and contribute greatly to water retention. Electrolyte retention also likely plays a large role, I’d assume due to the various effects on multiple systems of the body one would also become far more prone to diet induced water retention, esp is sodium retention is already greatly effected (via sodium reabsorption) a high sodium intake could probably cause quite a large amount of water retention if on certain drugs.
I’m no expert though, Dr Sir is the expert, but is currently on hiatus.
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You never stop to amaze us with your knowledge and to ‘normie’ like me you seem just as knowledgeable as the Doc himself. Can I ask one more question?
You and Doc seem to prefer using nolva to control estrogen, right? I have tried to understand the theory behind it and I get that it renders estrogen useless at specific sites for example gyno, libido and mood? Not too sure about if it helps prostate and keeps water retention to normal, of course if diet is dialed in as it’s number one thing on AAS or not. So let’s just say someone decides to do a cycle stacking these typical bulking AAS:
1-14 Testosterone 500mg
1-12 Nandrolone decanoate 400-500mg
1-5 Methandienone 30-40mg
16-20 Typical PCT protocol
Now cycle like this would cause aromatisation for most I believe, as I have not used these compounds yet to talk from experience. Also I’ve read that prolactin caused by all nor19’s can actually trick the person to believe he has crazy high E symptoms. But for those more informed there is med such as caber to control it I believe.
But putting prolactin aside, what should that person do to control high E? Should he try using nolvadex to make estrogen useless at those specific sites that cause sides, but keep his E high at the same time? Wouldn’t it still be problematic in other areas or just mask the problems since E is actually high? The reason why I ask is not to question that protocol because both of you are truly great experts, but to ask whether it’s more for TRT people or also suitable for people cycling or B&C. Thank you very much, I’m learning a lot from you.
Thanks for the compliment, I hope to do medicine one day, I just need to mature first (which I believe as this year has progressed I’ve gotten ever so slightly more responsible). I’m not an expert though, just an 18y/o kid who enjoys bodybuilding and is cursed with a wide variety of medical pathology (hypogonadism, autism, autonomic dysfunction etc)
If hepatic function isn’t significantly impaired/damaged due to drug toxicity and/or other medical pathology (and BF isn’t too high, as adipose tissue does contain aromatase), having excess adipose tissue creates a whole new set of issues though and you really shouldn’t be cycling if you have excess adipose tissue (specifically sub q and visceral fat, don’t want leptin resistance, excess aromatase etc), the rise in E (correlating with increased androgen concentration) should be within appropriate ratio within one another, thus the negative effects should be relatively minimal. Estrogen is primarily metabolised and cleared via the liver (P450 and various CYP enzymes for metabolites + conjugation).
I never give advice on drugs, but I’ll say if I was to run a similar stack (which I wouldn’t unless I knew I was going to compete and/or make a fuck ton of money from running this cycle) I’d use nolva (though I’d personally wait for nipple sensitivity before using as tamoxifen isn’t free of risk, however I’m very conservative when it comes to drug use so yeet.
Should mention progesterone is an inhibitor of prolactin in various tissues, nandrolone and 19-nortestosterone are progestins, however given the lack of research on if they increase prolactin (mostly anecdotes), we don’t know why lol. Interestingly I’ve seen one study showing a supra dose of T (and one in vivo study) significantly increases the excretion of prolactin. However unless you’re lactating prolactin probably isn’t the cause of you’re issues, 19nors deplete the body of serotonin and dopamine (effecting at a receptor level as well as gene transcription), thus causing depression, mental fog, fatigue, irritability etc (also dopamine inhibits prolactin so… yeet toopleflorp it’s super complicated)
Btw all anabolics are going to be somewhat hepatotoxic, hence the link between hormonal therapy and hepatic adenoma/carcinoma, c17AA anabolics just tend to be FAR more risky in this regard (the liver contains androgen receptors too).
People on TRT generally have NO business using an AI, to me the notion of using anastrozole or letrozole on 1-200mg of T/wk seems crazy.
Also fun fact, nolvadex in itself is almost intrinsically useless, it’s a prodrug (similarly to pro hormones, opiates such as codeine/dihydrocodiene or uncombusted/non deoxycarbolated marijuana.
Preferable route to controlling E is to use nothing other than liver detox supps/herbs (think warm lemon water, curcumin etc (I don’t use nac because the tablets are like the size of my thumb) however I’d reckon at those doses some intervention (SERM highly preferred if it was me) would be required.
The reason I generally don’t feel comfortable dispensing medical and/or drug advice is because I’m not a qualified medical professional and thus don’t particularly have the required knowledge base + if my advice harmed someone it’d weigh on my conscience (and most doctors throughout their career hurt people accidentally or on purpose if you’re like that serial killer doctor Harold Shipman), I’m sure most doctors feel acutely (or chronically depending on the severity and/ or consequences) guilty afterwards so I don’t need that to happen until I accidentally make the wrong call in a professional environment lol. I mean accidentally giving the wrong dose of prozac is different to accidentally mistaking an acute myocardial infarction in a young patient for costochondritis or something (can’t imagine this would actually happen, but this is an example of a really bad mistake)
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@physioLojik and others in the know. I am TRT using a cream and just got labs back, my total is 800 (264-916), free T 25.7 (8.7-25.1), E2 14 (8-35) and DHT 260 (30-85). I am addressing the low E2 and content with my T levels. Do I need to be concerned with the high DHT levels though?