[quote]ephrem wrote:
…thing is though, that in the beginning of this thread i asked to prove the existence of your god, because then you’d have proven the existence of absolute morality, or at least increased the likehood of that existing to near certainty. All you’re trying to do now is somehow prove absolute morality exists and thus prove god exists. But you, Cortes and push, still haven’t done either…
…what you’ve been taught as a child, in terms of right and wrong, are a set of general rules within which [a] society functions succesful. These rules evolved over time, via trial and error, among the tribes and peoples of the earth.
As population increased and larger settlements and even cities formed, a need arose to formalise these rules into law. You also needed a way to make sure that people followed those rules, and no better way of doing that is by telling people that the law came from god, and breaking that law would lead to an eternity of misery…
…but what difference does it make if we follow the same set of rules for different reasons?
Edit: for Cortes and push [/quote]
You want to know my position?
My position has been that there is a true Right and a Wrong out there, and that this is discoverable, and that adherence to its principles will lead individuals and, if followed collectively, societies to the greatest amount of happiness. And in this way it is Good.
If you really believe that all actions, including certain practices, such as slavery or human sacrifice, are excusable in this or that context, then you don’t really believe they are wrong, and all of the moral outrage at, for example, the Catholic Church is just manufactured bullshit none of us really need to take seriously. And the actions of the Church, too can be disregarded.
On the other hand, if you truly believe that these practices are wrong in any case, then you, like me, are an Absolutist. You agree with me, and now we can discuss whence this standard arises. My belief is that, no matter how many lives it saves, the ACT of buttsex with a 7 year old boy would still be immoral in itself.
The answer you appeared to finally give me, eph, was the former (and it seems that’s where anon is going with his argument, as well). It all comes from the environment and evolution, in one way or the other. That’s fine, if you really believe that (I think deep down that you don’t, but I cannot know your heart).
However, you have to understand that, once you admit this, you really have no rational explanation for why you are in this thread, angry at the Catholic Church, in the first place.
Because it’s all just programming and environment and such, isn’t it? I’m programmed to believe in God. You are programmed not to. The Aztecs killed hundreds and sometimes thousands of people a day in some response to their environment, which is the same way you got your conscience, so who’s to say they were wrong, either?
Cortes wasn’t wrong, either, in conquering them because his morality was better suited to the environment than their morality. The Mayan’s morality was proper for thousands of years, and then it wasn’t, and either way you can’t say anybody did anything wrong because we’re all born of the same primordial sludge, killing and fucking our way up the evolutionary ladder and that’s really all there is.
And if this is so, then you tell me, God or no god, what’s the point in even getting worked up over any of this shit? Let’s head over to RMP and dish out insults and 3s all afternoon.