Arizona Sued by the Federal Government

pittbulll · July 10, 2010, 5:22pm

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

…And if you think tunnels under the walls is some sort of wild assumption on my part or that there aren’t people going under the border via tunnel right now, you’re sorely mistaken. I worked for several years for a landscaper who hired tons of illegals and you know what? Every single one of them had come across the border via tunnel at some point or another. If you think that building wall footings deeper is an acceptable solution to this problem, you’re more far-gone than even I thought was possible…[/quote]

Tunnels would never be capable of serving as the sole conduits for the masses of illegals we see now. Never.[/quote]

You’re 100% correct on that one! If we built a wall, I’m sure that along with using tunnels, we’d see illegals coming by boat as well as some exotic means of smuggling.[/quote]

More geography ineptitude. Look at a map of North America and tell us how a maritime invasion of the US by Mexican illegals would work.[/quote]

While I look at a map, you look in my previous post and tell me where I suggested we’d be subjected to a maritime invasion.[/quote]

Well then my geographically challenged one, if the Pacific and Gulf of Mexico were not what you were talking about, that pretty much leaves the “we’d see illegals coming by boat” avenue to the lower Colorado River. I’ve been at the Colorado River where it enters Mexico; there are no boating opportunities for illegals there, buddy.[/quote]

Alright Push, I’m done quibbling with you over asinine things like this. I’ve fallen prey to your childish sophistry once again, but after this post I’m through. If you really feel that there would be no way whatsoever for Mexicans to sneak into this country via the ocean, then fine. If you really think that a huge wall would eliminate every passageway into this country except for tunnels (an very viable avenue that you ignorantly dismiss) then fine. But I’m not going to lend creedence to your arguments anymore on this subject as long as you continue to display such an infantile ability to evaluate the reality of the situation. [/quote]

I heard a great quote on Face Books , "Never argue with an IDIOT , he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience "[/quote]

Which is precisely why you get ignored or heckled at best on this forum.[/quote]

Do you really feel that I would care too much about an anonymous forum. I do feel there are people here that are more educated than I . I feel there are probably people that are VERY knowledgeable about certain things . But I feel there are so many people on this board that are so full of shit and I think you are one of them so you can ignore or heckle me if you like and I will not give a flying fuck

phaethon · July 11, 2010, 1:20pm

[quote]Chushin wrote:
DB,

While you make some valid points, I find your insistence that a wall would be more-or-less totally ineffective puzzling.

Yes, there will always be those who find a way in, but are you seriously claiming that ease or difficulty of entry has little or no impact on the number who attempt to enter? [/quote]

+1. Adding to that it is much easier to detect a boat approaching US shores than it is to detect a man in the desert approaching the border.

So sure some will get in illegally but not even a tiny fraction of the current situation.

To think that 10,000+ illegals would be coming into the US every month via boat is pretty funny.

The only problem with the wall is that by itself it isn’t enough. Simply because many illegal immigrants enter the US legally on a temp visa; They then drop off the radar and long outstay their welcome. A wall doesn’t stop these people. Hence more drastic measures must be undertaken.

DBCooper · July 11, 2010, 4:33pm

[quote]phaethon wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
DB,

While you make some valid points, I find your insistence that a wall would be more-or-less totally ineffective puzzling.

Yes, there will always be those who find a way in, but are you seriously claiming that ease or difficulty of entry has little or no impact on the number who attempt to enter? [/quote]

+1. Adding to that it is much easier to detect a boat approaching US shores than it is to detect a man in the desert approaching the border.

So sure some will get in illegally but not even a tiny fraction of the current situation.

To think that 10,000+ illegals would be coming into the US every month via boat is pretty funny.

The only problem with the wall is that by itself it isn’t enough. Simply because many illegal immigrants enter the US legally on a temp visa; They then drop off the radar and long outstay their welcome. A wall doesn’t stop these people. Hence more drastic measures must be undertaken.[/quote]

I’ve never said that 10,000+ immigrants per month would come here by boat if we built a wall. I’ve also never said that the ocean would be a primary or even a significant avenue for illegals to come here. I simply meant that if a wall were built it would not eliminate the means of travel here for illegals. Shit, I wish I had never mentioned the water thing; you guys are projecting a little bit too far here and it distracts from the validity of the rest of the points I’ve made.

My point, which I’ve made over and over, is that the wall will not eradicate illegal immigration all by itself. If there was little to no reason for illegals to come here (meaning no anchor babies, no jobs w/o documentation, no social services, no healthcare outside of ER care) there would be much less illegal immigration regardless of our border situation. With a significant decrease in the amount of illegals coming here in the first place, it would become much easier to patrol our borders in its current condition. The measures that I support will serve to prevent them from trying to come here illegally, whereas the wall will only serve to force them to seek other means to come here illegally.

I’ve known and worked with a lot of illegals and I’ve talked with them about their experiences coming back and forth. It isn’t as easy as simply walking thru a desert. And many of them use tunnels, thereby negating the effect of any wall. I understand that a wall would be a highly effective means of stopping them from coming, and I’ve said as much. However, I think this would invite other problems upon us that can be avoided by implementing measures like the Arizona 2007 law that placed heavy, heavy fines on those who hired illegals.

The state saw a 33% drop in the illegal immigrant population in 2 years due to a scarcity in jobs and this 2007 law. No significant border security improvements were made and there certainly wasn’t a wall built. From their example, we KNOW that the measures I have suggested would be highly effective. If we accept that there will be some sort of fallout from the international community should we build a huge wall (and there will be), then it becomes clear that the most effective measures with the least amount of blowback would be to enact the ones I have suggested.

pittbulll · July 11, 2010, 5:13pm