Arizona Sued by the Federal Government

MaximusB · July 7, 2010, 9:21pm

For those who say a wall won’t work, you are wrong…

You need to build a triple layer concertina wire fence, with armed troops patrolling the ground, and all the best tech we have to assist them. Each border state gets 5000 troops on the ground. When people see troops with guns, they tend to re-think shit. Oh, I almost forgot, they can put the sign that we put up under every guard tower at FCI Terminal Island. “No Warning Shots Fired,” you put that on that fence, you will see a drop of illegal crossing by at least 75%, maybe more.

Like my old coach said, “It’s mind over matter. We don’t mind because you don’t matter.”

Sloth · July 7, 2010, 9:49pm

Why’s everyone so down? I want to pat Obama on the back and say, “Go get 'em tiger!” He just lost whatever chance for re-election still remaining. He’s, without a doubt, a one term President. Not only that, but he’s dragging down the Democrat congress with him. This is good news.

MaximusB · July 7, 2010, 10:36pm

Anyone notice how the law suit the Feds are filing doesn’t site racial profiling or potential violation of civil rights? Did anyone also notice how no one, not Obama, Holder, Napolitano, Gibbs, or any other worthless breathing bowel movement that is working for him announced the law suit via press conference or public event? How did everyone learn about the law suit? A news story maybe?

Obama isn’t that stupid, he finally read the AZ law and found out it’s legit. He also backed off from the racial profiling drivel a bit, because the Harvard trained lawyer can tell that he is in deep shit with the law suit. The Feds are claiming preemption, that only the Feds can make immigration law. WRONG. No such statute passed by Congress exists, so the Feds are going to go with implied preemption. Good luck with that one Obama, I can practically hear the judge laughing this thing out of court. Anytime your main argument begins with “implied”, you fucked yourself. The author of the bill, Kris Kobach, already knew they would go with preemption, and he already wrote his brief on why there is no such legal precedent stating Federal preemption exists with regard to immigration policies. This mother fucker’s legal background has stints at Harvard, Yale, and Oxford, that makes him a bbbbaaaaaddddd man. He is undefeated in legal challenges, 7-0, I can’t wait to see this thing fall flat on it’s face.

When, not if, but WHEN he loses, it will only show further how incompetent he and his presidency is.

pittbulll · July 7, 2010, 10:55pm

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I can’t wait til the genius author of the Arizona Law, Kris Kobach, points out how Obama and his administration are breaking Federal Law by endorsing sanctuary city policies. How he is picking and choosing which federal laws are being enforced and which aren’t. Obama fucked with the wrong guy, the people behind the AZ law are not simple activists, this thing was crafted knowing full well it would be challenged in court. Much of what is in the law has already been upheld by the most liberal 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.

I am calling this now, Obama and his cronies lose in the lawsuit. After he loses the lawsuit, embarrasses himself to the point of no return, we will see the single handed dismantling of his presidency. He shoved health care down our throats, hasn’t done shit for jobs, added insane amounts to the debt, pissed off alot of people who want the law, hasn’t done shit for those who voted for him (he failed to deliver his amnesty.)

The bloom is off the rose with this man. What he had in 2008, was his mystique, but that is gone now. We know what he is about, and he is full of shit like every other president we have had. Conservatives and the Republican Party should be looking for a strong candidate at this point, because the presidency is up for the taking. Come November, watch Obama get his ass handed to him. [/quote]

This no matter how it goes will go to the Suprme court. It could be in court until who knows when

OctoberGirl · July 7, 2010, 10:59pm

Does anyone know if the suit filed by the Feds means the AZ law is in suspension until the outcome of the case?

MaximusB · July 7, 2010, 11:47pm

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

Does anyone know if the suit filed by the Feds means the AZ law is in suspension until the outcome of the case?[/quote]

The Feds will seek a temporary restraining order against the law, which may or may not be given, as of right now, the law will go into effect July 29.

Brother_Chris · July 8, 2010, 12:21am

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
I’m curious as to why someone would suggest that a wall wouldn’t work. Built on a sufficient scale, I believe it would.

On the other hand, I also think there should be a dead zone between the border and the wall that should be mined…and that sure isn’t going to happen.

I remember many years ago when the Berlin Wall fell. I suggested back then that they should have taken all those out of work border guards, brought them to the US, given them a place to live, new weapons and new fields of fire along the Mexican border. They would have been happier than the proverbial pigs in you-know-what. Better pay…US citizenship. It would have been a public relations success story.

Alas…[/quote]

Walls built to keep people out can also be used to keep people in.[/quote]

Yeah, WORKERS REVOLUTION! Wait, I only get 40% of my pay check, wait I can only have rations? I’m going to Mexico, wait they’ll shoot me if I jump the fence…exactly.

hungry4more · July 8, 2010, 1:49pm

If this were people, not governments suing each other, AZ would probably end up counter-suing the fed gov for harassment, and emotional distress.

IrishSteel · July 8, 2010, 1:50pm

BORDER SECURITY IS NOT ABOUT IMMIGRATION!! BORDER SECURITY IS ABOUT NATIONAL SECURITY!!

DBCooper · July 8, 2010, 3:12pm

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Walls built to keep people out can also be used to keep people in.[/quote]

WTF kinda pseudo profundity was this supposed to be? If we built a wall on the Mexican border of course it would keep people OUT of the US and IN Mexico.

I hereby strike you from my nomination list for the highly sought Rhetorician of the Year award.
[/quote]

How appropriate. I struck you from my list of people whose rigid, unwavering, misinformed, unintelligent opinions I give a fuck about months ago.

DBCooper · July 9, 2010, 4:58am

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Walls built to keep people out can also be used to keep people in.[/quote]

WTF kinda pseudo profundity was this supposed to be? If we built a wall on the Mexican border of course it would keep people OUT of the US and IN Mexico.

I hereby strike you from my nomination list for the highly sought Rhetorician of the Year award.
[/quote]

How appropriate. I struck you from my list of people whose rigid, unwavering, misinformed, unintelligent opinions I give a fuck about months ago. [/quote]

So, you’re concerned about the US government not letting us leave the country?[/quote]

Not really. But I’d think someone paranoid enough to think that what we need is to surround ourselves with a bunch of fucking walls wouldn’t think it’s a stretch to also think that at some point those walls would be used to keep us in. I’m not trying to lump anyone in particular into that category so please don’t think that I am implying that you (or Push for that matter) are paranoiacs.

Look, building a huge wall on the Mexican border wouldn’t make our problems any better. They might be different problems, but they’d still be big ones. This country would become the outcasts of the international community if we did something like that. I understand that some people don’t seem to give a flying fuck about our standing amongst the other nations on this planet, but that view is an ignorant departure from reality.

We’ve got a bunch of people calling for all sorts of boycotts of Arizonan products right now over the enforcement of a basic law. How loud do you think those cries for boycotts and so forth would become if we built a wall across the border? Don’t you think that all sorts of different countries would take issue with our wall-building and that these countries would take certain steps to “punish” in whatever way they deem necessary or possible if we did such a thing? I’m not sure I’d blame them either. Shit, look at the international furor over the wall-building in Israel.

Also, a huge part of the argument for the eradication of illegal immigrants (and a very, very valid one) is the fact that they are a huge economic burden on this country. But think about it. Building and maintaining that wall could potentially be just as big an economic burden. Given that the wall would spawn a whole new set of issues for us, it’s hardly an investment with a large potential for a significant return on it.

Those fucking Mexican cartels would have every incentive to sabotage the wall at every chance they could get. The repairs we’d need to do to the wall would be expensive and given how dangerous the border has already become due to all of these cartels, it would be a highly dangerous repair. The construction itself would be highly dangerous. We have people going apeshit because of the deaths of soldiers in Afghanistan fighting a legit enemy. Can you imagine the uproar if we started losing American lives in the process of building some Draconian wall across our southern border?

I’m sorry, but to think that if we can just go down and build a wall across the border w/o inviting a whole slew of new problems that have nothing to do with illegal immigration is extremely short-sighted and ignorant. Like it or not, we’d become international pariahs and again, like it or not it is ridiculous to think that we can exist in this world as such a pariah without some negative consequences that could very well outweigh whatever positive benefits may come along with ridding ourselves of these fucking anchor babies and illegal workers.

The solution is simple. We as a country need to create an environment in which there are no jobs, there is no education and no healthcare (outside of emergency care) available to undocumented workers, period. Despite the backwards fiscal policies of the Obama administration we are not going to become a third-world country anytime soon and Mexico certainly isn’t going to become an economic power, so there will always be a reason for Mexicans to come here for work. But they will come here legally and be forced to pay into the same pool that covers their social services/healthcare/education/etc that we all do if there is no chance they can get work w/o proper documentation. We depend heavily on the existence of cheap labor, but illegal cheap labor is slowly bankrupting us. If Mexicans couldn’t come here illegally and get a job, it’s not like they’d just stop coming. They’d simply come here legally.

How do we do this? We go after the people who hire illegals with fire and brimstone. It is they who create the incentive for them to come here illegally and it is they who reward illegal immigrants who come here illegally with jobs.

DBCooper · July 9, 2010, 1:50pm

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Not really. But I’d think someone paranoid enough to think that what we need is to surround ourselves with a bunch of fucking walls wouldn’t think it’s a stretch to also think that at some point those walls would be used to keep us in. I’m not trying to lump anyone in particular into that category so please don’t think that I am implying that you (or Push for that matter) are paranoiacs…[/quote]

Bud, you have some serious problems with lack of knowledge of geography of the North American continent if you think a wall on the AZ - Mexican border (or CA/AZ/NM/TX - Mexican border) would amount to “bunch of fucking walls…that would be used to keep us in.”

You try so hard at times to be the sophisticate here but then you toss stuff like this up on the blackboard and all I can do is shoot spitballs and jeer at you. Can you blame me?[/quote]

I don’t even know why I respond to half of the drivel you direct toward me. I’m tempted to simply block you, but your habit of missing the actual substance of my posts in your inane attempts to look for absolutely anything to argue about when your own arguments lack substance is quite amusing at times. Please do carry on. Any other semantical issues you want to take up with me? I know you think I jumped out of that plane without a parachute, but sometimes the absolute banality of your posts has me convinced I landed squarely on you.

DBCooper · July 9, 2010, 5:46am

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

…The solution is simple. We as a country need to create an environment in which there are no jobs, there is no education and no healthcare (outside of emergency care) available to undocumented workers, period…[/quote]

Since the idea of the wall offends you so much would go so far as to push to eliminate all border points of entry? Create an open border to go along with your above solution (which I agree with but don’t think it is comprehensive enough)? If not, why not?

[/quote]

I think that the wall, without any other external factors involved, would be a great idea. It would effectively keep illegals out, no doubt about that. But the reality is that the stigma, not to mention the logistical requirements, of building a huge concrete and/or concertina wall (along with towers say every several hundred yards) would go over like a lead balloon amongst the international community. Our borders should not be removed altogether, although I’m sure you’d love to hear me say they say would because that would be much easier for you to reconcile with.

Not everything is black and white Push. Just because I don’t believe we should build a massive wall in much the same vein as the Great Wall of China or a new, improved version of the Berlin Wall does not mean that I support the removal of our international borders altogether. I just think that the issue is not a border security issue as much as it is an “incentive” issue.

Keep in mind that there are all sorts of tunnels already in use that just go underneath our existing border and could just as easily go under any wall we build as a replacement. It’s kind of like these guys that keep getting busted for doping in the Olympics or the Tour de France.

The cheaters, or in this case the illegals, are always going to be one step ahead, they’ll always find some way to come here without going through the legal process as long as there is some reward (jobs) waiting for them once they get here. I understand that going after those who hire illegals is by no means comprehensive, but I do feel that if there is one single thing/policy/action that will severely curtail the existence of illegal immigrants, it is the removal of the incentive.

Look at Arizona. Between 2007 and 2009 (according to FAIR) there was a 33% drop in the illegal immigrant population that corresponded with an overall decline in the availability of jobs due to the economy’s downturn. The same effect can be had w/o waiting for more jobs to dry up if we severely punish those who hire illegals, thereby reducing the availability of jobs for illegals without reducing the amount of jobs in general.

pittbulll · July 9, 2010, 8:49am