I won’t argue with you man. You push the envelope as long as you like and I hope you the best of luck with it.
All makes perfect sense . Again , thanks for the input .I will try to drop the test dose a bit and drop ai first . Maybe only take 200iu hcg 2 x weekly ? Also thinking of eod injections for test … obviously a lower dose .
I can’t imagine that Dr Nichols would advocate double the lab range for free test. Hell, I can’t imagine how he could actually keep a medical license by prescribing at those levels…
He has 20 years of bad experience. You have the answer you are looking for right in front of you. You have actually already answered your own question. Your problem is the AI and Hcg. Totally brought into the medical TRT world by the bodybuilding community. Other than fertility Hcg is completely unnecessary if your testosterone is optimal. Only time an AI should be used is for mastalgia. Otherwise leave it alone while on TRT. Dr Nichols treats symptoms not numbers so he doesn’t advocate any specific number as there is a great deal of inter-individual variation in T levels that cause symptoms as a certain level in one man is perfect whereas that same level in another man may cause significant symptoms of testosterone deficiency. Too bad the physician treating you with 20 years of bad experience didn’t think of having you try 30mg of testosterone cyp subQ daily without hcg and the AI. I bet you would have had a totally different result.
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Why not optimize all the hormones not just testosterone. They all have their individual beneficial effects so why have just normal levels but instead optimal levels. DHEA very beneficial
OK, I will stand by my original suggestions. Good luck.
I love train wrecks.
What’s the difference between sub q injections and IM? And 30 mg per day ?!? My test was at 1647 with one injection of 130 mg per week … I heard you need less mg with more frequent injections …
I really enjoy not having to go fishing for my balls in my stomach after sex . So I kinda like the hcg . However , after splitting my doses , and spreading out hcg administration, I’m realizing that the bloat and lathergy IS being caused by the hcg . Do you think I shiuld try 100 iu 3x weekly , maybe 125 2x? I’m currently at 250iu 2x weekly . And my test dose is now 20mg eod Test cyp .
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How long ago was this?
Only been doing it for about a week . The reason for my thought process . … my first protocol was
Mon hcg250iu
Tue hcg250iu
We’d test cyp 150 mg
Thurs .5 anast
Fri .5 anast
Sat.5 anast
Sun 1cc mic
I was feeling highs and lows highs on days 3,4,5 which I attributed to one large shot weekly . Now that I’m looking at it . Day 6,7, 1,2 are the days of and after hcg administration .
As of recently , my hcg is spread 3 days apart . I was feeling decent the other day , no bloating , and erections that I couldn’t keep down . Then yesterday , just hours after my hcg , I had puffy hands and feet , and it was work to keep an erection during sex …
My personal opinion is that if you just changed things up a week ago, I would not attempt to critique those changes until I have been on the new protocol for more than 6 weeks. Too many things go crazy whenever you make any changes, so you have to wait until things stabilize to truly assess whether or not the change is working.
True . I understand that . But the fact is that with both protocols , my days of bloating and feeling shitty come the days of hcg injection . And not to bring up that other cycle I did 3 years ago but… there were no bad days … also no hcg . Just wondering if you think my hcg dose could just be too high …?
@mrz123
Not sure if this helps any but I read a few posts on here from like 2015 where a guy was using hcg to stay fertile and keep his balls but was having issues with side effects. He went to 70iu daily and posted two years later that he had two kids and his balls stayed the same but didn’t suffer from the bloat and other issues he was having at larger less frequent doses. I don’t know enough about hcg to have an opinion but thought that was interesting.
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Bloating is usually associated with E2, and from what @increasemyt says, anything less than 500iu per injection is a waste of money, BUT…
It’s a well known fact that some guys just can’t tolerate HCG… Maybe you’re one of them?
I really don’t have enough knowledge about it yet to give you any real help bro. I apologize.
If you care to follow, I should be starting a thread next week documenting my experiences with HCG, once I start injecting it. I’m hoping to give a fairly subjective and definitive report on how it affects me. It’s the only thing that will change in my protocol and my TRT is fairly dialed in.
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Yeah . Definitely helps . Supports my thought process with no concrete evidence (scary) ,but it’s definitely Something to look into . Can’t find any reputable study’s done on the subject . … I also may not know where to look …
Plenty of guys do just fine on 250 IU’s of HCG. Taking it two days in a row is pointless, because the second dose won’t actually do anything. The HCG is EOD or further apart because of how it works. Taking AI three days in a row to close out the week is foolish, that is just a great way to crush your E2 and then stoke it into a roar on Monday with the HCG. The sides that you describe are E2, which is elevating from HCG use. Equipoise is not going to affect your E2, at least it won’t raise it. You are fine when you use Test, you just crank the E2 when you use HCG. The AI is not likely to have any great impact on the E2 coming from HCG, but it might crsh your levels just in time to crank them up for a rollercoaster ride.
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Sounds like exactly what’s happening . So , when you say most are fine with 250 iu hcg … is that weekly ?
Each shot. It’s also something that you can cycle (some endo’s prefer it be cycled). Use it for a few weeks, leave it for a month or so. Depends on your reaction off of it too. Some guys get achy testicles and use it to relieve that,