Not trying to be an ass here, but you just contradicted yourself.
In one sentence you said that E2 never needs to be measured and nothing needs to ever be done about it, and then gave an example of “some men” who need to measure E2 (how else would they know it’s low?) and do something about it.
This whole theory is becoming quite contradictory. Your docs are telling you that the answer to symptoms that most associate with “high E2” are actually caused by test levels not being high enough, but then they admit that they can’t prescribe more than 200mg / week of injectable testosterone.
Then, they admit that there are no long term studies showing that elevated E2 is not harmful, and then counter that argument with “we don’t have any studies showing it is harmful either”. That’s a good counter, but completely inconclusive.
Then, they say that higher than range levels of testosterone show no negative effects, but there are countless broken down former body builders who will attest to the contrary. @anon18050987 offered a very valid point concerning hct and it was dismissed. Not addressed, but dismissed.
Let me ask a question (and I’m asking this from ignorance because I sincerely do not know), concerning the statement that high levels of E2 are beneficial…
When a man decides that he wants to change his gender from male to female, what hormones are administered? I could be wrong, but I think he is given estrogen. If so, can you explain how high levels of this hormone can not have negative sides, if its effects are used to actively transform a man into a woman?
Edit…
Just did a little digging and, according to the Mayo Clinic, my assumption is correct.
A quote from their website…
In a nutshell (no pun intended lol) they create an estrogen dominance, which is exactly what is happening when a man has an issue with excess aromatization. You’re right, it’s not about the numbers. I’ve been on board with that idea for a while. It’s about the ratio (balance) of E2 to testosterone.
You guys are saying that you should just let it balance in its own, which I don’t disagree with, but have you considered the fact that…if everyone’s body had the ability to perfectly balance hormones, and could do that all on its own, that NOBODY would need TRT in the first place?
They give massive doses of estrogen but then completely deprive the patient of testosterone. There’s a difference.
In our case we are boosting testosterone levels and allowing E2 to balance on its own. That’s absolutely different.
You feel like I’m contradicting myself but I’m not. The docs DO NOT measure E2. The vast majority get their free T optimized and they’re done. There are some odd cases where free T is optimized and the the patient is reporting systems that administration of E2 resolves.
There is a difference between endogenous and exogenous estrogens.
I understand that you just ‘don’t believe this’. It’s fine. The reality is over ten docs I know are using this method, collectively with thousands of patients, and not a single one on an AI, and not a single one with ‘E2 issues’. When I say not a single one, this is not an exaggeration. My E2 is currently approaching 60. If I had to take a guess, based on current dose and where it was at my last dose. I have the strongest erections I’ve ever had. Cialis grade erections. Amazing libido. Orgasms are ridiculously powerful. All of these can be thanked by the E2 levels that brought these benefits. If you just do daily or EOD protocol, optimize free T, slowly and gradually wean yourself off an AI, I guarantee that once you stop taking it you’ll never take it again.
I think that you argue so much with so many people that you forget any details whatsoever about the people that you are conversing with. Either that or you are in serious denial about some side effects of high E2. You know that short term memory falls into that list right?
First, I DO believe the idea. Second, I don’t take an AI. Never have. Never will. Period. Why can’t you get that part straight?
I try to look at things from every angle I can think of. Your docs should try it sometime. They may be amazed at how much further they could take their research. And that’s what this whole theory is at this point…research.
@bmbrady77 apologies. I speak to anywhere from 50-100 men a day, all sending me their labs by email and messages. I can’t remember all of them. When I say ‘you’ I don’t mean you specifically. I mean generally speaking. These guys have done it from every angle. The point is, this method works every single time without fail. It is considered new best practises. The Transscrotal cream approach is working even better than injections. I don’t know what else to say. I have nothing to gain by helping you with this other than simply to help you.
No apology Needed man. I enjoy going back and forth with you.
Allow me to put something into perspective. I think I see where most have issues with how you word things sometimes (and btw, I sincerely thank you because I have seen great effort on your part to tone that down in your posts as of late).
You guys need to slow down. You’re trying to help 50-100 men a day with labwork and questions, and I can only imagine how many patients that the actual docs have to deal with daily. Where’s the connection man? And for Gods sake, where do you find time for your wife and kid?
You know why this place works, and why the members here all stick together for the most part? They’ve all been here long enough to somewhat become familiar each other. They have debated topics for a long time and have all learned from each other.
It’s a family so to speak. People here really care about the next guy. I believe that deep down, you do too. The problem is, when you try to take on the world, especially all of it at once, there’s no time to learn the specifics of each case. There’s no time to actually get to know the patient, and find out what his individual well being would even look like, much less design a protocol to try to achieve that.
It becomes a factory brother. Take one in, throw a quick fix to him, and push on to the next. That’s why people take offense. They aren’t numbers on an assembly line, nor or they blind rats in a maze. They’re people. They deserve to be respected as such.
I sincerely hope this is taken as it was meant, and please…pass this on to your group. SLOW THE FUCK DOWN. Lol. You’re not going to save the entire world. Truly, shift the focus to saving the one right in front of you, he or she deserves full attention, and then move on.
@bmbrady77 typically when I am helping someone specific, with their specific issues, it’s through PM on FB or in email. So before I reply I can quickly review past history to get a refresher as to where I’m at with them. In a forum like this, with multiple people asking questions, I offer general advice. Advice that can apply to anyone and anyone can use.
Yes, I spend a lot of time doing this. I run a successful business that takes up anywhere from 50-70 hours a week. I remarried in 2017, have a 3 month old and two teenage boys (from a previous marriage). Plus we moved into a new home in May. Yes, it pisses her off sometimes but then I show her the emails and the messages and the videos that guys send me. Some of them make us both cry when we see them. I understand how this stuff works and I’m helping men by getting them pointed in the right direction and oftentimes getting them a proper physician. My life is amazing and I have nothing to complain about. It wasn’t always like this. I just want men to feel better. Once they feel better their lives improve across the board. I’ll have no regrets when my own life ends.