Gyno isn’t caused by E2 either. I know. You won’t believe me. I get it. Took me a LONG time to be convinced of that one.
This is not just anecdotal. The docs in our group don’t have a SINGLE patient on an AI anymore. NONE of the patients have “E2 issues” because their free T levels are optimized. We’re talking about thousands of patients here. The docs are reporting back that they no longer see any need whatsoever for an AI. Not for ED, not for Libido, not for gyno, not for NOTHING unless they develop mastalgia. That’s the only exception. Since they convinced me I stopped taking my AI, my E2 levels almost TRIPLED, and I feel better than I ever did before with no symptoms. Yes, it took a few weeks to feel better and I felt worse before I felt better. So who am I to believe? Guys in a forum that keep stating things that go against what has already been demonstrated to me or a group of doctors who actually do this for a living and have nothing to gain by telling me what the current best practices are.
I posted a study for you that demonstrated that the transscrotal application will absorb 5 times better than any other area of the body.
Still waiting for an answer about that podcast. Is that a no?
I don’t do social media. I’m not interested in fame or notoriety. I also work Tuesday through Sunday. I do volunteer work full-time and work part-time on the side. I don’t have time or interest in any podcasts.
I believe that what happened with you is what happened with you. I believe that AI’s are over prescribed and over used. I also believe that you are making unproveable claims. Absence of evidence is not proof of non-existence. We do have evidence of ED correlating directly with E2 levels. Is he the only that’s ever happened to? I doubt it. The minute you believe that you have all the answers, you are in trouble.
And, just as a point of fact, I have access to any published study I want because my sister is a research psychologist and has paid access through the University where she is also a professor.
I to subscribed early on by reading stuff on here that I needed to be at e2=22. I actually took ai because of this. The ai made it extremely difficult to get me dialed in. The thinking on here (mostly ksman leading the way) even made me switch drs a couple of times because they did not want to lower my e2.
Luckily I caught on after a few months and stopped messing with the ai. And what is worse they had a protocol as a sticky that included using 1mg of ai per 100 mg testosterone. We got that changed in the sticky.
The stickies should all be removed…
You keep repeating the same things which I keep correcting:
It didn’t just happen with me. It has happened for thousands of patients. Because of that I changed my protocol and now I also feel better.
My claims are provable. I pointed you to our repository of research but you don’t want to visit it. Again, it isn’t my problem. It’s free for anyone to visit.
Please provide your evidence of ED correlating directly with ED because our researchers have found none. Also explain why some guys in our group have E2 over 100 and are essentially walking hard-ons (I know why!!)
You don’t have access to Dr. Scott Howell. When it comes to research, there is nobody better. Do yourself a favor, just do a search for his name on YouTube. He was invited to do a few podcasts on the subject. Multiple PhD and an absolute GENIUS when it comes to this stuff. All this man does is research. So when he sends me papers on stuff, and tells me how things are, I listen. I listen real carefully.
I also invited you to have a discussion on the podcast which you also refused.
So, to recap:
You refused a live discussion with experts. You refused to visit the group or view the repository of research, and you continue to state that I have no evidence and that I only speak of my own experiences. Wow. Ok then. Carry on!
You posted a screenshot of some PDF’s, and told me to join your Facebook group. i am not on Facebook, and have no intention of ever being on Facebook.
You could easily do a search of hrdlvn’s posts and see his data.
Saying something is proveable is not proving it. I have no problem searching for research by Scott Howell. But somewhere legit, not YouTube. Published research, that has been peer reviewed.
Being a walking hard-on while having high E2 proves that it doesn’t bother that guy, short-term. That’s it. A couple of Halo’s a day will do the same thing, but it’s not a good plan long-term for many reasons. And either way, that doesn’t mean no one has an issue with it. It’s like Casey Viator all over again here.
We have a collection of research in a repository that is free for people to access. Do you want me to download all of it and email everything to you? Why don’t you just create a dummy facebook profile, go download all the research, and delete the profile afterwards? What’s the big deal? You just seem to make every excuse in the book as to why you can’t go look at it. We have research from all over in that group. Tons of it. I’m going to spend hours downloading all of it to send to you? Why would I do that? It’s right there. Geez, have someone else from this forum go take a look for you and report back as to whether or not it’s legit. Stop making excuses. You request access, I’ll approve you right away, doesn’t cost a thing, no obligation of any kind. It’s a VERY different place than here, that I can tell you with certainty. If you won’t want to, you can’t say I’m not providing anything. It’s all in one place. Come see it for yourself or stop whining about it. Pick one.
[quote=“hardartery, post:32, topic:257408”]
avoid the AI unless you need it
Just curious what E2 levels are considered too high anyways? anything over 40-50? guess it depends on the person though hey. Either way i get my blood work done every 8 weeks so i can keep tabs on it.
I tried Subq for the first time this morning, i like it much better i think. but i am curious about how my body absorbs it because i seriously felt like i had 15 cups of coffee about 2 hours later, not sure if im crazy but i dont think i got the energy serge from my 3 liters of water i drank today. now im tired as shit but still feel amped up at the same time.
If it happens the next few times i guess ill know what its from. lol.
There are a lot of guys here who mix up TRT with steroid cycles. Doing excessive amounts of test for performance and muscle gain is NOT TRT. And dose matters a lot when it comes to whether the estrogen will become problem or not.
TRT lowered my BP I was 30 with sky high BP crisis levels as they say. I was starting to have days where my head would be throbbing and I couldnt even get out of bed. It was low t causing it. I was on clonidine losartan and buspar for anxiety. Stopped all 3 within a month and a half of TRT
@tgk143 this may sound crazy to you, but since E2 has never been demonstrated to cause harm, and we know it is beneficial to the body, we don’t even measure it anymore. Why measure something that we’re going to do anything about if it gets ‘high’? It’s a totally different mindset, completely in contrast to what we have all been taught, but it’s true.
As for the amped up feeling, my first guess would be psychological. You’re injecting in a completely new area and it’s giving you some anxiety, even on a subconcious level, because you’re not sure if it’s going to be OK. However, there are guys that have certain intolerances to certain oils. I know some guys who can’t handle the sesame oil from Delatestyl (Enanthate we get in Canada) and have to switch to a different oil. It can be for a number of reasons.
TRT doesn’t exactly raise blood pressure. It DOES, however, raise hemoglobin and hematocrit. It is normal and expected. To all you guys that donate blood when your h/h gets ‘high’, stop doing it. It is completely and utterly unneccessary.
@charlie12 there are a lot of guys doing very well with Metformin (non diabetics). Again it is one of those hig/miss things. A friend of mine is having nasty digestive issues on it and other have felt very unwell on it. We’re all guinea pigs at this point. If it works for you, great. If not, try something else if you’d like.
@systemlord, even if they have ‘high’ E2 (and at this point I don’t even know what you mean by ‘high’. High for who?) it makes no difference. Once their free T levels have been fully optimized, that E2 number can be whatever you wish and the guy will feel great. There are lots of guys in our group with E2 over 100 and total T around 1800. They have never felt better.
@vonko1988 as soon as you are adding anabolic compounds to the mix the whole AI discussion goes out the window. If you think these bodybuilding guys are healthy, they aren’t. Those doses of AI they take is completely destroying the endothelial lining and general cardiovascular function.
There are not a lot of guys here mixing up the two things. There are some young guys that think 300 mg is a good cycle, when it is not. It is above the needs of 99% of TRT guys and would give them supraphysiological levels of T, but not by much. There are a lot of guys that think anything above 200 is a cycle. It’s not. It won’t get some guys out of the basement with their testosterone.
@hardartery again I completely agree. I know guys having to take 300mg a week just to have symptom resolution. Anything else and the symptoms return. For me, AAS territory is 500mg a week and above. By the way, there are studies of men taking 600mg a week for 12 weeks with no demonstrated harm of any sort. The doses we are taking are a non-issue.
I am pretty sure that short term higher doses of testosterone cause no harm. Long term is different. Most guys on PED’s aren’t going to be hurt by the test, it’s the other things that get them.
I cant deny that one bit because it most likely was, lol. I feel back to normal today. I am somewhat hyper sensitive to medications though but in this case I agree it had to be psychological.
But at least I know that subq seems to make it alot less stressful for myself.
Regarding the Estrogen topic, I was under the impression that higher levels are what flick the “dna” switch that activates or could possibly activate prostate cancer, among others? Thats what I have been told anyways.
I am here to learn as much as possible so ill take as much information as I can get haha.
I have never seen any good evidence for that, and frankly don’t think there’s any truth to E2 having any effect on prostate cancer. The thing about prostate cancer is, you WILL get it, but usually something else kills you before it could. Most of the time it’s a super slow condition that really doesn’t bother anything before old age gets you.
So what your saying is its inevitable for most men to get prostate cancer in there life time? That’s unsettling lol. Although it’s good to hear it’s not such an aggressive disease, unless of course it spreads and that might not be so good.
I have a question For a friend of mine, his e2 was at 120 before starting trt, he was prescribed 1.5mg of Arimidex along with 100mg of trt once per week. Is that too much Ai for him? Says he has been tired as hell and not feeling too good.
Just thought I’d ask.