What about HCG? I here you can get your own back up to optimal levels that way, or does it not work that well? I know alot of people take it with trt but can it be taken by itself with optimal results?
Yeah I’ll definitely grab that book sometime soon, I appreciate the optimism regarding trt ! It seems like a pain but hopefully it will be worth it in the end.
HCG still shuts down your feedback loop. It is replacing natural LH with a synthetic version of the female version of the hormone. It’s not a good replacement for test therapy, it’s good to maintain function and induce fertility if that’s what you need.
To add to what hardartery already mentioned, depending on the cause of the low testosterone it might not even work. As there are different mechanisms behind why it may be low. HCG has been experimented with as a stand alone therapy option for some people on TRT, but I don’t think anyone was using HCG as a stand alone therapy for a longer period of time. That being said taking exogenous testosterone directly is far more effective and always the most direct solution, you are going to have to do injections either way as well. HCG also converts more to estrogen for certain people. It is a nice add on to have so your balls don’t shrink, and to take away the risk low risk of becoming impotent with TRT alone.
I just stab them in. When i started i would even close my eyes and just stab. I dont know how some guys just slowly push it in i still hold it like I’m throwing a dart and just aim for a general area or a squeezed mound of fat and just flick the wrist.
It hurts way less slow, especially the pushing the plunger.
Im refering to the penetration. I dont have any issue once the needle is through the skin. Occasionally I hit a spot that hurts, i think they may be nerves or blood vessels or something. They sting like I’m injecting alcohol when I do get one, then i get a bruise and sore lump for a few days. When my wrist locks up and I bounce the needle off my stomach that never feels good either and always bleeds but if I stab it in fast i dont feel it.
I move over a little if it hurts on contact. I’m not a very sensitive guy though I guess.
High E2 does NOT cause ED. ED is caused by non-optimal free T levels, thyroid issues, and other things. E2 is not one of them. That is bro science.
Here we go again. We have guys, with labs to back it up, showing correlation. You are providing nothing other than screaming regurgitation. Post a study that proves something, or shut up. Labs are not “Bro Science”. You jumping up and down like a 3 year old doesn’t prove anything.
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Hundreds of guys in our group with zero AI, Estrogen sometimes over 100, and ZERO ED.
Start watching this from 1:02:20 about ED.
100’s of guys reporting no problems. Are you aware of what Bro Science is? I can round up hundreds of guys that’s tell you taking MDMA only on the weekend is fine too. You’re talking about a cross sample of the TRT using public of less than 1%. That is pretty far from definitive evidence of anything. We have at least one guy on here who took the time and paid the money to do the labs and find causation in his personal circumstance. That, all by itself, is evidence that it CAN be a cause. I can find you hundreds of guys who use AAS as PED’s and will report all about what happens when they don’t control E2, either high or low. Quit using a biased sample group of anecdotal information as verified truth.
Does it matter to most guys? I seriously doubt it. Does it make a difference in some guys? Definitively yes. I know you are not actually the way that you are coming off here.
@hardartery would you be willing to participate in a live podcast so that you could argue your position?
Using AAS of PED and adding an AI is a COMPLETELY different topic. I am referring to TRT use ONLY. It is NOT needed with TRT.
E2 is E2. Assuming someone is in otherwise great shape, I doubt it’s a problem. There are literally too many conditions to possibly be aware of, making any blanket statement impossible.
I agree with this. If on a trt dose, ai is not needed unless there is a genetic condition or some disease causing excess e2.
Problem is guys on trt on this forum seem to have done cycles in the past, so they inject more than they should on trt.
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Would it help if I posted a study about obese men that were given TRT and NO AI? Guess what? They LOST visceral body fat (thanks to the E2), gained muscle, and lost bodyfat overall. I know you’re big on studies. I can post that one if you wish though since you state that you have access to everything I figured you already had it.
So, how about that podcast? Interested? Would be live, on a weekend, in the afternoon.
Want to know when E2 IS a problem? Guys that simply don’t make enough of it. Clinically low levels of E2. Guys like that actually need to supplement with it. Yes, I realize I just broke your brain.
Guys who in the rare case develop mastalgia can benefit from an AI. For everyone else it’s a no. With the exception of bodybuilders on massive doses of AAS which I’ve already stated is a different story. I have to take 250mg à week just to get a todal T of 1060 and free T of 28. I’m an anomoly. No AI, E2 was measured just for fun and is 45. No issues. I can share labs of guys with their E2 well over 100 and no issues. The difference between them and you is their free T levels are optimized. You guys simply aren’t getting your levels up high enough because you’re too stuck on the ranges developed for sick people.
Do you supp dhea?
And you inject im or subq? And frequency?
Hopefully you share this.
You come in here being critical but make an effort t share your experience and help others in here.
Thx
The E2 issue is regarding E2, although I’m sure that there are guys with gyno problems too. Some conditions are tricky. My point wasn/t about dosing, it was about your reference. You argue that E2 has no impact on ED. We have a guys with labs that say otherwise. Which one is the Bro Science? Posting a study that points toward the obvious being true isn’t really addressing the subject at hand. Does the softer thinner skin of the scrotum absorb topo test application better than shoulder skin? Kind of a gimme, but it’s nice to have a study agreeing with the idea (even though achieving shutdown with nandrolone seems suspect and unnecessary) I am confident that there is no study in existence that proves E2 cannot be implicated in ED. It would be virtually impossible. And there are very few guys on here doing more than a normally accepted TRT dose. And, just for the record, I have never done a cycle, I have only done TRT and that was well after my competition days.
I’m critical because most of what I read here is bro science. I’m sorry, but I used to be brainwashed by this stuff just like you and it was really hard for me to learn the right way. Following this bro science led me to 3.5 years of TRT that was a complete and utter waste of time. Once I unlearned what I had learned, learned that E2 is my friend, learned that my free T levels were far from optimal, everything changed. You wouldn’t believe how many guys in our group are doing this exact same thing and it is literally transforming their lives. I’m NOT trying to sell you anything. What you have learned is wrong and I learned that same thing. Now that I know better I teach.
I do SubQ and have much better results. I never felt right with IM compared to SubQ. Daily is what I do and is the best way of keeping everything consistent. Once my wife stops breastfeeding I will change to the transscrotal cream applied twice daily. All of the guys in our group who have done injections for years (some of them decades) have switched to the cream and will never go back to injections. They can acheive free T levels that they simply couldn’t do before with a TRT dose of oil. I supplement with DHEA 50mg daily as do most in the group. The only thing that is hit or miss is pregnenelone. Some guys do amazing on it. Others (like me) get libido/ED side effects. It’s one of those things you just need to try and see if you feel better or worse. Many guys are also taking anywhere between 5-30mg of melatonin. However, again, it doesn’t seem to agree with me either. I’m a difficult case so my journey down this TRT road was VERY long and I had to learn A LOT.
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