[quote]FattyFat wrote:
Concerning time efficacy, Schwarzfahrer: you can also achieve a nice physique, especially if stripped for time, if you chain ISOs. Or if you combine them with compounds. I don’t like the drawing lines in sand mentalities presented by both of you, in here.
[/quote]
Really?
Even if health is the prime motivation?
You wouldn’t rather have such a guy squat then do leg extension s/s hammie curls?
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
40 minute workouts, 3x per week are pretty standard for legions of gymgoers.
[/quote]
Out of the 100 or so regulars I see at the gym, maybe 12, MAYBE 12 are making progress. And all of them are in there more than that…
Why are we discussing shit that leads 88% of the gym population to look the same 3 years later?
[quote]FattyFat wrote:
Oh, hi, ProX. Didn’t know you’re an accountant, these days.
I’m perfectly aware of the state the forums are in.
[/quote]
Dude, that post wasn’t any sort of attack or slight at you, and if it came off that way, my bad.
the boards suck these days, and I’m going to voice my opinion about it, irrelevant if your initial post was aimed at X, CC or Sallymae.
Threads discussing the virtues of ‘sacrificing’ 3 hours a week for your goals don’t help…
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
40 minute workouts, 3x per week are pretty standard for legions of gymgoers.
[/quote]
LOL. And legions of gymgoers look like absolute refried shit. Once again, we can look and see where this half assed attitude leads…nowhere…with little progress…or even fatter years later than they are right now.
Yes, you DO need more dedication than that to stand out.
I am amazed this is still a shock to people seeing as a decade after starting posting here, the same people with that mentality still look the same.
Yes, they don’t look good. And the point still stands.
What’s so hard to grasp that many won’t summon up more dedication?
Just think of the following scenario:
Your sixty years old father in law wants a routine from you. After you givr him your sermon about dedication, he’ll somewhat grudgingly up his timeframe to 30 minutes, twice per week.
Would you prescribe him isolation exercises?
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Yes, they don’t look good. And the point still stands.
What’s so hard to grasp that many won’t summon up more dedication?
[/quote]
Nothing. What is so hard for you to understand that that AIN’T bodybuilding?
[quote]Venks wrote:
I’ve been doing compounds for over a year now. Hardly any difference in size. Most gains were in strength. ( I could barely push the bar when I began) My arms are lagging, though and I started to wonder why.
Over a cup of coffee this morning, it struck me. Are we doing this wrong?
Sure when compared to the bench press, the skullcrusher/ tricep pushdown won’t cause much anabolic hormone release. But is the Bench Press better than Flyes, front raises and tricep pushdown?
Hypothetically:
Bench: 135 lb
Each hand hypothetically is carrying around 67.5
Of that 67.5, around 40 is probably being carried by each pec.
That leaves a measley 27.5 lbs for the tricep and shoulder to share.
Whereas on the isolation, with some grunting and good form, hypothetically, I am able to lift 60 for flyes, 20 for front raises and 60 with the triceps.
For each side, this comes out to 140 lb, much more than the benching weight. If performed on the same day, I believe the hormonal response would be similar to the bench press( it would also take more time).
Am I thinking something wrong? Are isolation exercises underrated? Sure, we can lift much less weight, but they do produce more muscular contraction than an ordinary compound exercise. Isn’t that what’s required for optimum muscle growth?[/quote]
Hey man, some words of advice… stop thinking so damn much, especially this early. Speaking from experience, if you aren’t growing like you want to be there is probably a combination of 4 simple things going wrong:
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You want everything, and you want it yesterday. Sorry to say it, but you aren’t going to be able to simultaneously put on 50 lbs of muscle and drop 50 pounds of fat.
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You’re not eating enough or what you are eating is utter garbage.
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You’re not giving it 110% in the gym. Been there done that, I went through periods when if I was supposed to hit, let’s say chest, I’d hit chest no matter what, even if it felt like utter garbage. And guess what, I’d have a subpar workout. Now, if i was supposed to hit chest, and my chest just feels “off”, I am going to hammer a muscle that feels fresh as opposed to “just going through the motions” of a chest workout. Or more simply you may just think that getting to the gym is good enough to grow.
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Lack of consistency. 'Nuff said.
Judging from your previous posts I would say at least 1,2 and 4 are likely; simply from your statement of something along the lines of, “Last week I ate relatively clean, but it all seemed to go straight to my belly.”
Can’t really say whether you are working hard enough in the gym, because I have never seen you train.
Cheers
Sorry for the off-topic previous message, but I really thought the intended topic was not what the OP should be worried about.
That’s fine with me.
So let’s call it “working out a bit”.
Same example as above with your imaginary father-in-law, who wants to “work out a bit”.
Would you tell him to isolate or wouldn’t you rather let him do a few multijoint exercises?
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
That’s fine with me.
So let’s call it “working out a bit”.
Same example as above with your imaginary father-in-law, who wants to “work out a bit”.
Would you tell him to isolate or wouldn’t you rather let him do a few multijoint exercises?[/quote]
?
The “hypothetical father in law” likely won’t even be in the gym 4 weeks later because of his lack of dedication.
Why would I give a shit what he is doing in the gym before he actually makes the real intention of going there on a regular basis?
Check this, I often get people coming up to me asking questions. You can bet that the ones I will go out of my way to help…are the ones who I have been seeing working hard for some time before that and not the ones who barely try and only come in once a week.
It doesn’t fucking matter what you do if you are only in there off and on.
Once again, get someone like that on the stacked plate machines and have at it.
Why be concerned about whether someone like that does a fucking deadlift?
You are talking about people who won’t ever make much progress…and if they ever do, they won’t keep it. Do you understand how that type of person is NOT the focus of this forum?
Why should anyone here care about people who don['t want to try hard?
[quote]FattyFat wrote:
Your attitude would make much more sense in an elite setting where every participant would fully commit himself to bodybuilding out of his own volition, i.e. accept that it takes time, effort and dedication.
Sorry, dude: that’s NOT this forum.
[/quote]
I am pretty sure they made me a MOD so I could help make it more that forum.
Why try to hinder me?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]FattyFat wrote:
Your attitude would make much more sense in an elite setting where every participant would fully commit himself to bodybuilding out of his own volition, i.e. accept that it takes time, effort and dedication.
Sorry, dude: that’s NOT this forum.
[/quote]
I am pretty sure they made me a MOD so I could help make it more that forum.
Why try to hinder me?
[/quote]
Thank you for saying it X! When a forum is entitled “Bodybuilding Training” one would hope that, “Every participant would fully commit himself to bodybuilding out of his own volition, i.e. accept that it takes time, effort and dedication.”
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
But some just want health & looking OK/losing weight.
[/quote]
Who gives a fuck?
lol
Anyway, Prof, you look Hellish in that avatar.
[quote]FattyFat wrote:
Sorry, dude: that’s NOT this forum.
[/quote]
Which forum is it? Thats where I want to be… point me in the right direction please?
I get bothered enough every damn work day by “weekend warriors” and “I’ll start on Monday” people, the point of me using this site is to avoid hearing that shit some more…
@countingbeans
I didn’t take any offense at your words, I was simply wondering why you replied for ProX.
And I wanted to make clear that I know the state the forums (most of all the BB forum) are in.
Should’ve added a smiley to my post.
There. 
@ProX
I wasn’t trying to hinder you.
I simply reviewed your success, so far, and went out of my way to suggest an alternative approach.
@solidkhalid
I’m not dropping names of other forums publicly in here. That would be a low blow.
And, ftr: I didn’t say TN is shit, just that it serves its purpose.
And its purpose isn’t purist bodybuilding’esque, anymore.
This is probably my final post in this thread that is seemingly filled with people suffering from reading comprehension issues.
Some people on this board do coach and/or give advice out to folks that have no ambition to add serious bodymass. My own training has 0 to do with this thread.
Progressive weight training, believe it or not, can be used by such people for a hundred reasons.
It’s a fact that societies all over the world are getting fatter, less athletic and generally unhealthy.
Weight training can adress ALL these issues at once, perhaps like no other form of training can.
“Bodybuilding”, “the pursuit of muscle”, “weight training” or whatever term you use for progressively training musculature in general would greatly benefit from more people realizing and following core principles of intelligent training and how it’s superior to mindelessly running around or just fooling a bit around with machines in Planet Fatness.
And for some of these trainees, namely those who have little time at their disposal, isolation makes, in my opinion, little sense.
@prof X: If you cannot find a good reason to have otherwise sedentary people work out 2 hours a week with weights, then perhaps it’s time to rethink your ethical approach to medicine.
As for the utter imecile who posted a pic of the ironsport-badass:
What do YOU think would happen if a 60 year old senior would approach the gym owner, asking him if that kind of training would help him? Would you think Mr.Pulcinella would NOT admit him because he’s not hardcore, even if the potential client is motivated to bust his ass four times a week for a net training time of about 30 minutes? How much time would the senior spend isolating muscle?
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
As for the utter imecile who posted a pic of the ironsport-badass:
What do YOU think would happen if a 60 year old senior would approach the gym owner, asking him if that kind of training would help him? Would you think Mr.Pulcinella would NOT admit him because he’s not hardcore, even if the potential client is motivated to bust his ass four times a week for a net training time of about 30 minutes? How much time would the senior spend isolating muscle?
[/quote]
It’s hilarious that you are calling others (me) imbeciles and bemoaning a lack of reading comprehension when you clearly don’t understand the fact that THIS FORUM IS NOT FOR SIXTY YEAR OLD SENIOR CITIZENS LOOKING TO “GET IN SHAPE”.
This forum has nothing to do with who is or isn’t let in to any gym ever. This forum is not about people who can only put in two hours a week. It is absolutely NOT about “otherwise sedentary” people.
You are building up a ridiculous straw man because you have completely failed to comprehend the purpose of these boards. You should probably stick to browsing the beginner section. The sad thing is you aren’t even saying anything “wrong”. You’re just completely out of context. Your advice is exactly right for the average PT or the average gym goer. But that is just not what this board is about.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
@prof X: If you cannot find a good reason to have otherwise sedentary people work out 2 hours a week with weights, then perhaps it’s time to rethink your ethical approach to medicine.
[/quote]
? This isn’t about medical patients. This is about BODYBUILDING. I may have come across 3 patients in ten years who were seriously into BODYBUILDING. This is NOT about trying to get sedentary people to simply do something to be active. Once again, THAT AIN’T BODYBUILDING.
You are in the wrong forum for this shit.
Exactly. There are nothing wrong with these types of questions. They are just better suited for places like Mens Health forums or even Berardi’s forum.
T-Nation lost it’s essence.