Anytime's Come Back

Training Training Logs
161

Sounds like you’ll get lots of volume, which might allow you to grow without effecting the layering. you could end with some high rep latterals, or at the end oif one of your workouts try my seated DB clean and Press, thats a shoulder killer, grab a set of 30s and try to get 20 reps LOL. Because your seated you have to use your front delts to swing them up (clean) then press, then back to your sides, at around 12-15 reps you’ll have to take a few seconds between reps.

Anyway are you planning to do the Hepburn routine on it’s own day, or at the end of the layering ? Layering sounds a bit like our old 5x5 power routine, where we’d ramp up in 5s till you couldn’t get 5, you’d fail at 3-4, then drop back 10% and get 3x5 I did this for years with kids, I only changed from this when 531 came out, a few years ago, either way doing the Hepburn at the end of a layering workout, sounds like alot of volume, which isn’t always bad, I do alot of low intensity volume, after my heavy work. Depends how your day looks. If it’s High pulls Layered, then hepburn military, then some mabey facepulls—BB curls 3x8 (superset) Youd still be in the 4 exercises limit, with only two being big movments, and only one of those worked with real heavy intensity. Id have to see what you had in mind for your week, and how maney exercises your layering, because thats what will wear you down.

At the end of the day you have to know your own body, and it all has to be enjoyable, people forget this. They get all worked up when I start mixing and matching, but Im tracking, and making notes, keeping what works, and dropping what dosent work. I can have the best routine in the world, but if I dont enjoy it, Im not going to put as much effort into it, and Ill loose interest. As long as from month to month, and year to year, your making gains. Anyway its late and Ì`m babbling about nothing. Latter

162

Well, this is what I’m doing, pretty much to the letter. Max Muscle Layer Schedule - Christian Thibaudeau Coaching - Forums - T Nation

I had started doing that press routine in addition to the layers; I’d gotten through the 5x3-10x3 phase, but the doctor told me to lay off any overhead pressing until my shoulders healed up. I was doing those everyday during the morning, and the layers at night. At that point, I didn’t run into any problems. But I was still working at a light weight, right around 75% 1RM. Eventually I planned to do that every-other-day, once it started feeling heavy.

I’m still waiting on my shoulders to heal, but just sort of thinking out loud right now.

I’d like to work up to at least a 215 overhead press (over time, of course) with the shoulder development that goes with that.

163

landmine presses, and facepulls fixed my shoulders. I couldn’t over head press for around 5yrs, because of a seperated shoulder, but I found landmine presses, and started working them, and they did’t hurt. i got really strong on them, 3 plates for 5 reps per arm. Anyway when I went back to normal overhead work, didn’t hurt anymore. I’ll take a look at the routine when I get home, lol I think I was falling asleep at the keyboard last night, that last post is drival :slight_smile:

164

Just had a quick look at the layering system. This will get you strong fast. I would not do anything else outside this program, while doing it.

Sorry I didn’t realize what you were doing last night, this is an agressive program wave training, and doing 15 sets per workout, you won’t want to do much more. i would just give my all to this for 8-12 weeks, and then go back to somthing more well rounded if you like. I’v done wave training like this in the past, and it takes alot out of you. You might possibly want to work in an opposite exercises, like I do in my workouts.

So if your doing push press, mabey do some pullups, or on the high pulls, do some dipes, but go easy. Try to find the opposite movement patteren, and work it at low intensity, sets of 15-20 just getting blood in. The benifits of a routine like this will come after, when you go back to normal training, and your much stronger, the growth spurt will come then,‘’ Big muscles are made by moving big weights for high reps’’ but you have to get stronger first. Latter

165

Oct 7/13 Alright, first mabey ever, speed squat day. Wasn’t very satisfing, but I played around, and tryed to make it productive. No box obviously, went deep on these, tryed pausing on first couple, but couldn’t build any speed, by set 5 they turned into jump squats, and i like these, just went down deep, and came up fast, and left the ground by as much as I could.

Then deads, haven’t really done deads in over a month, was going to just do an easy set of 5 at 365, could only get 3, this pissed me off, so I stayed there and did 10 sets. I guess my deads regressed a bit while I was focused on my squats. Having this speed day will allow me to train deads properly again. played around with sumo, but ebded up pulling conventional

Squats
205x10x3 (This was light, but I’d never done speed reps before)
Deads
365x10x3
BBcurls------TRX fallouts+frenchpress
65x10----mex20
85x10----mex20
95x3x10—mex3x20

Suposed to do 531 on deads@365, but couldn’t get 5, and couldn’t let the weight beat me so I did 10x3. Next time I grab 365 it’ll know better :slight_smile: I got 405x10 only a month or so ago. Pisses me off when this happens. Anyway Latter

166

My quads are sore this morning, the actual quad muscle. This the first time since i started 4x week squatting that this has happened, and yesterday I only worked with 205 for sets of 3 speed reps. Seeing as I’ve never done these before, and I’m sore from them must be a good sign. I did go alot lower than normal, probably 4-5inches lower than my heavy squats, this and the fact that I was pushing as hard as I could, to jump up off the ground, must be the reason.

When I heavy squat I only go to just below paralle, I’m squatting to a 14 and 1/2 inch cooler (box), and parelle for me is 16’’ It’s hard on my knee to go AtG with heavy weight, and I’m training for a meet so I don’t see the point, but it seems these speed squats might be a good addition. I tryed squatting with bands a few years ago, and didn’t like it, and there for wrote off speed squats, but you have to keep an open mind. I think these are going to help big. Latter

167

[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
Just had a quick look at the layering system. This will get you strong fast. I would not do anything else outside this program, while doing it.

Sorry I didn’t realize what you were doing last night, this is an agressive program wave training, and doing 15 sets per workout, you won’t want to do much more. i would just give my all to this for 8-12 weeks, and then go back to somthing more well rounded if you like. I’v done wave training like this in the past, and it takes alot out of you.[/quote]

Thanks for the insight. It sounds like that overhead press progression isn’t really the right thing to be doing, at least not at this point in time.

I do like that the workouts are pretty short (45 minutes or so), focused (only one lift), and intense (lots of work at 90%, then some volume work). I definitely walk out feeling like I accomplished something. Even if my daily max is down a few pounds, I still end up with a bunch of quality work at around 85% so I know it’s still good for me.

It’s mostly that I’m ultimately looking for the shoulder development of the 60s-era golden age bodybuilders, where shoulders and overall broadness are the standout part. But there’s no rush; I’ve got time to work on that down the road. A good example of that look is Melvin Wells.

168

I’m not 100% familiar with CT’s layering sytem, but from what i’ve seen it looks kind of like a wave load. A couple years ago I did a wave program 5-3-2 this ment I did a set of 5, then took a couple breaths, and got a set of 3, then took a couple breaths, and got a set of 2, I would do 5 rounds of this. Consider that i was doing a 5x5 program before this.

I would end up with 25 reps, at around 80%, but with the simple wave I was getting 50 reps with around the same amount of weight, in roughly the same time. In this example you can see how I had doubled my out-put in around the same time frame, this has to be taxing on the body. Now you may feel like you want to do more, but this simple example should let you see why this probably isn’t a good idea. I thought CT was recomending push press, this should be enough for your shoulders.

Wave training was what finaly got me a double body weight bench, after years of being around 40lbs short, so I know it works, and when you are done with this program, you’ll be that much stronger to start your hepburn program. Latter

169

oct 8/13 worked out today, even though I worked out yesterday, because I got called into work on Mon. Tues. of next week, so this way I can hit it today, then do my big 4th workout on Sun and take Mon and Tues off. I was a little stiff from yesterday even though it was a light day, but I shook it off and had a great day, things are cooking right now.

I’ve shifted out of 531, and I’m auto regulating right now, because i’ve broke threough some sort of barrier, and my old strength seems to be comming back in spurts atleast, and i might as well take advantage of it.

squats
350x5x4 awesome,

Bench-----Rev bench (face pull, with 3’’ pipe, through TRX handles)
135x10-------mex20
225x5--------mex20
250x5--------mex20
275x5-------mex20
300x5-------mex20 counted 5reps, but lifted my ass on last rep
275x5-------mex20
250x10------mex20
Arnold Press-----rear latterals
65x10--------20sx20
65x10-------20sx20
65x10------20sx20

F#@k I’m feeling good right now, Sunday I’m squatting 365x6x3 I’m loven life. In April I was struggling to squat 225x10, I’ve put well over a 100lbs on my squat. This is why I think I need a change from 531, it’s a great program, but slow and steady might be holding me back, when my strength is comming back in big spurts it seems.

Smolov made me find that extra gear, I mean comming from an abused home, then spending 20yrs on the streets knocking heads. Putting on that in a closet to become a father, and husband, but crawling under a weight I didn’t think i could get, and then getting 6sets of 3 with it. made me realize I can tap into some of that rage I’ve been hiding away.

i don’t have to use it to hurt other people, I can use it to hurt myself, in the weight room. This has been huge for me, it’s what was missing. I’m going to squat 500 by new year, or die trying. Latter

170

MattyXL I know you mentioned Auto regulation a while back, and I was just getting started, and didn’t give it much thought, but now I’ve come full circle, and my strength is starting to get respectable again. I should have listened to you back when you brought it up, but I’m listening now if your around.
Anyone else that wants to speak on auto reg, as well. I think I’m going to start a thread

171

OK thanks to Matty’s thoughts on another thread, auto-regulation thread, I killed a boring, rainy satuday afternoon, kid, and wifeless, reading every single morsal of info on the net, that mike Tuchscherer has ever written, and offered for free. Three and a half hours of reading by the way. This guys a genius, and strong, great combo, he has some great thoughts on auto regulating training, alot of it real similar to my thinking already, this always helps make reading more enjoyable, when it backs up what you already believe.

Anyway for me to ramp up in 5s till i can’t get 5, fail at 3-4 then drop back 10% and get 3-5 sets of 5 at that weight has always been my way of auto regulating. This isn’t far off what he does, just with a rating system of exurtion, and a rating system for exhaustion. These two rating systems I will have to learn and understand further, and insert them into my training as that happens.

In the mean time I’m going to keep my training exercises the exact same. I’m going to keep my training layout the same, 531 layout of 4 week block, with the intensity ramping up weekly in waves to the third week, then a week off, or deload, same formula, except I’ll be hitting the numbers exactly as written, so 8 - 5 - 3 which is probably what guys are roughly hitting anyway when they get AMRAP. On the first week I’ll ramp up in 8s till I can’t get 8, fail at 6-7 then drop the weight by 5% (Tuchscherer’s idea) and get my 3-5 sets of prescribed reps there, on the second week 5s, and on the third week 3s

531 is a great program, but because I’m comming back, and gaining strength back, it’s not allowing me to gain back my strength, as fast as I think I can, but I still think the 531’s 3 week wave and week deload is a great set up, thats why I’m using it. I doubt there are maney people in my exact circumstance very often, being relatively strong a decade ago, and still working out, maintaining some muscle, but letting my strength go. Puts me in a pretty small minority I imagine. Anyway training should evolve slowly over time, rather than change abrubtly, and thats what this is. i’m still going to squat 4xweek as I have been, this will only apply to my other lifts. Latter

172

Sun, Oct 10/13
Day 4, heavy squat day
squat
135x3x10
225x5
275x5
315x5
350x3
405x1 - PR, overreached a bit today, to see where I was, felt good
365x6x3 - Life is good RPE @ 8-9 had atleast a rep left on each set

Goodmorning - Squat alternate back and forth within the set (1 squat - 1 goodmorning)
Squatmorning ------ DB shrug
135x10--------90sx20
185x10-------90sx20
185x10-------90sx20
185x10-------90sx20
BBcurl ------- TRX fallouts n Frenchpress
95x15------------mex20
115x10----------mex20
115x10----------mex20
115x10-----------mex20 F%$KING DONE !

Ya that was a workout alright, nice. Did a single at 405 just to see it felt good, the way Im going Im about 3-4 weeks away from 405x6x3 for a day four workout, cant wait. The squat - goodmorning combo is somthing Mark Bell swears by to really teach you about hip placement, and explosion during heavy squats. I want to get up to 225 on these, but this was my first week doing them so took it fairly easy. I dropped cleans from my program because squatting 500 is my only goal right now, and everthing in my program has to be geared towards that. having said that, I didnt write it down, but I was doing cleans supersetted with my BB curls today F%%King hard, I do 10 curls, then flip my grip and do 10 hang cleans with 115lbs, did 3 sets of these, dont know what i was thinking, insane, and supersetted fallouts as well. Train heavy and basic, then go nuts on assistance. Think I got that covered. latter Oh my wife will be putting up pics latter, of my garage gym, and any special equipment / exercises I talk about on my log. Finaly talked her into it, since Im a computer moron. Latter

173

Oh boy i’m stiff this morning, my whole back, from belt to traps is sore, my abs are really tender, ands my legs are tight, especialy hams. Now I did a couple things diffewrent yesterday, I did goodmornings for the first time ever, so I’m sure thats alot of it, but i also did DB shrugs, laying facedown on an incline bench, so those two are probably my back soreness. On abs I lowered the bar I use for TRX Fallouts by 4inches, so this and the goodmornings, probably have that covered. I never get sore ever, so it’s strange when it happens, I had a hard time getting out of bed this morning, my abs are so fricking sore I couldn’t sit up, LOL, goodtimes.

Yesterday my daugther had some friends over, and I cooked two boxes of KD for them, then they went out, and didn’t eat any, so this morning I threw the KD into my big skillet+mixed veggies+12 eggs+1/2 brick shredded cheese, I have it half gone by ten in the morning. Eatting, i’ve had to reteach myself how to eat again as a PLer, slowly increassing the volume, just like weights. This is where I see most people screwing up, not eatting enough. It’s funny to me, lately everyone I know is accusing me of being on juice (I’m up to 260lb)

When i tell them I’m force feeding myself, 4000+ calories a day (unprocessed) “ya you blew up over night from meat and potatoes” i’m working insanely hard on a handfull of basic exercises, then consitantly eatting 4000+ calorie dense foods a day, evey day. You can’t expect to go in on a Monday and do 10 sets of deadlifts at 80% and then eat a skinless chicken breast, steamed brocoli, and get any results.

I don’t care where my weight ends up, I’m training to get 1500lb total, and squat 500lbs, I’m forcing my body to lift more weight from week to week, and i’m forcing my body to consume more calories week to week, it’s no secret but nobody does this. Then they acuse me of juice. I help a bunch of kids, as well as follow some logs here, and the main thing I notice is not enough calories, they’re afraid to eat, they’re afaid to push they’re diet as hard as they push in the gym.

I say this ; - the guy who can squat 600lbs, can always take 8-10 weeks and diet down to see his abs. the guy who’s always worried about his abs, will never squat 600lbs. You have to decide what your goal is, and if it’s to get stronger, you have to consitantly add calories, just as you consitantly add weight to the bar. Latter

174

[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
Oh boy i’m stiff this morning, my whole back, from belt to traps is sore, my abs are really tender, ands my legs are tight, especialy hams. Now I did a couple things diffewrent yesterday, I did goodmornings for the first time ever, so I’m sure thats alot of it, but i also did DB shrugs, laying facedown on an incline bench, so those two are probably my back soreness. On abs I lowered the bar I use for TRX Fallouts by 4inches, so this and the goodmornings, probably have that covered. I never get sore ever, so it’s strange when it happens, I had a hard time getting out of bed this morning, my abs are so fricking sore I couldn’t sit up, LOL, goodtimes.

Yesterday my daugther had some friends over, and I cooked two boxes of KD for them, then they went out, and didn’t eat any, so this morning I threw the KD into my big skillet+mixed veggies+12 eggs+1/2 brick shredded cheese, I have it half gone by ten in the morning. Eatting, i’ve had to reteach myself how to eat again as a PLer, slowly increassing the volume, just like weights. This is where I see most people screwing up, not eatting enough. It’s funny to me, lately everyone I know is accusing me of being on juice (I’m up to 260lb)

When i tell them I’m force feeding myself, 4000+ calories a day (unprocessed) “ya you blew up over night from meat and potatoes” i’m working insanely hard on a handfull of basic exercises, then consitantly eatting 4000+ calorie dense foods a day, evey day. You can’t expect to go in on a Monday and do 10 sets of deadlifts at 80% and then eat a skinless chicken breast, steamed brocoli, and get any results.

I don’t care where my weight ends up, I’m training to get 1500lb total, and squat 500lbs, I’m forcing my body to lift more weight from week to week, and i’m forcing my body to consume more calories week to week, it’s no secret but nobody does this. Then they acuse me of juice. I help a bunch of kids, as well as follow some logs here, and the main thing I notice is not enough calories, they’re afraid to eat, they’re afaid to push they’re diet as hard as they push in the gym.

I say this ; - the guy who can squat 600lbs, can always take 8-10 weeks and diet down to see his abs. the guy who’s always worried about his abs, will never squat 600lbs. You have to decide what your goal is, and if it’s to get stronger, you have to consitantly add calories, just as you consitantly add weight to the bar. Latter[/quote]

True about kids being obsessed about abs and won’t ever squat close to 600. I havn’t seen my abs since I was 8 lol.
Anywho man looks like your doing well with training and eating, good to see. I have a quick question, I currently train friends for free, I am thinking of getting my canfit, certifcate. I was wondering from someone with your experience is this certificate worth the money? What advice do you have for someone starting out training others?

175

The problem in Ont atleast is most gyms don’t reconize anything but Can fit, this certification is owned and run by Goodlife. I have a handfull of certs, dating back to 94 for my first one, collage cert. The industry is so screwed up, you have guys spending 3yrs in collage, competing for buisiness with kids that took a weekend cert, and niether of them really knowing how to properly train.

listen to this story, when i first opened my gym, the insurance company wouldn’t reconize me as a trainer, and wouldn’t insure me. I hung up took a 5min online coarse ASFA AmericanSports and Fitness Association, they Emailed me a cert, and 15min latter I phoned back the insurance compan and they said great yopr certified we’ll insure you. Thats how screwed up the industy is. i paid 75$ took a 5min questionair and i was qualified. Anyway very few gyms are like mine, that will let trainers walk in and start working with clients, in fact I don’t even take a cut.

most gyms want you to be on staff, and in ON most want a Can Fit cert. bottom line ia wheather i think it’s a good cert or not, it’s the one you need in this province. On the up side, if you get a job at goodlife they will pay for the cert, that what my son did.

One last thing, if you have a gym that will let you train there, and all you need is a cert, so you can be insured, and not sued. the ASFA will cert you on line, and it’s reconized in ON, so thats an option. the kid I was training for 5yrs, I needed him to take my clients while I was away, so thats what he did. Goodluck

176

Thank you man I truly appreciate your insight. I know I just told a buddy the nature of the fitness industry, he is now getting paid to train people with hardly any certificates . So I figured I’d ask before I shell out a couple grand. Thank you. I’m thinking of doing the online cert, if that doesn’t pan out I’ll apply to another gym like goodlife or athletic club ect. Thanks good luck with everything your doing

177

[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
I’m not 100% familiar with CT’s layering sytem, but from what i’ve seen it looks kind of like a wave load. A couple years ago I did a wave program 5-3-2 this ment I did a set of 5, then took a couple breaths, and got a set of 3, then took a couple breaths, and got a set of 2, I would do 5 rounds of this. Consider that i was doing a 5x5 program before this.

I would end up with 25 reps, at around 80%, but with the simple wave I was getting 50 reps with around the same amount of weight, in roughly the same time. In this example you can see how I had doubled my out-put in around the same time frame, this has to be taxing on the body. Now you may feel like you want to do more, but this simple example should let you see why this probably isn’t a good idea. I thought CT was recomending push press, this should be enough for your shoulders.

Wave training was what finaly got me a double body weight bench, after years of being around 40lbs short, so I know it works, and when you are done with this program, you’ll be that much stronger to start your hepburn program. Latter
[/quote]

Thanks for taking a look. I’m not totally familiar with wave loading either, so we’re kind of in the same boat.

For my shoulders, after trying a handful of things, it seems wide grip partial upright rows hit my lateral delts well, without aggravating my shoulders, and without using too much of my upper traps. My traps seem to be dominant, but this shifts things back toward the lateral delts. I’m bringing the bar only high enough that my upper arms are parallel to the ground.

I’ll see what CT has to say about programming it, but right now I’m planning on tacking this on the end of the high pull days. I’m not sure about sets or reps, but 3-5x4-6 has been CT’s standard recommendation for most assistance work.

As far as the suggesting to do some density work on the arms… I threw in a few sets of 10rep BB curls between my bench sets today. I’ll just work on bumping that up to a good number of total reps (you’d suggested 100-120 or so), then upping the weight.

178

120 was just an eg. with EDT it’s however many reps you get in the alotted time, anyway more latter, i always end up answering your quaestions after i’ve had my sleeping pills, at night before I crash. talk latter

179

Never fails, I just was saying to my wife last night. All these kids I read about on the logs, all whining about sore knees, or elbows, can’t lift because of a bad back, blah, blah, blah. here I am at 40, with steel in three of my joints, hand that was turned to mush with a sledge hammer, prety much robotic at this point, and you don’t here me complain.

Ya, should know better, did a set of squats this morning, jumped up to grab the pipe, and do my leg raises, POP, somthing let go in my left elbow, on the outside where my bicept ties into forearm. It was fine till I stared pressing, then it started shooting up across my bicep, and into my shoulder.

It took half the workout to remember doing those BBcurls, and BB cleans supersetted the other day, without putting the weight down, stupid, I was doing sets of 10 curls with 115lbs, then I’d flip my grip over, while the bar was hanging, and then do 10 hang cleans. Great pump in my arms and shoulder’s, but I’m sure thats what did it. Anyway todays workout

Squats 315x3x8

suported Military------some rear latterals (couldn’t do any pullups, or rows)
135x10
155x5
185x5
205x5
215x5
225x4 (this is where I failed to get 5, so 5% decease, and workout)
215x3x5
205x3x5
185x8

Pushed through the pain on every set, anyway first official autoreg workout. It’s all about finding my max in the days rep range, then staying in the pocket, delivering blows for as long as possible :slight_smile: Latter

180

wtf I wish I had that kind of overhead strength