is there free will in heaven?
since we are given free will here on earth, and have the option of turning away from god - for which in the end we are punished - is there free will after death?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
The thing about these religious threads are, for the most part, the only people involved are those with views so profound that they would never possibly change them. Its like arguing with a retard who’s parents told him his shit is concentrated evil. You ain’t going to change his views with reason and absolute logic vs blind faith. That said I am fucking amaaaaaaazed at how thoroughly people can be brainwashed by a religion(or government) from an early age. Far be it from me to pull the holier than though but to be an actual “Christian” or “Muslim”, ect, I see as the sign of a weak minded person. To not be able to question something that has no evidence and is so goddamn illogical is alarming. Lowest common denominator, man.
And for what its worth I am definitely not calling all strict Christians/ect unintelligent. I think some people have just invested so much into the bullshit they believe it would be a near fatal blow to their pride to reconsider. Hell if I gave 10% of my earnings to my “god” for my whole life I’d be goddamn pressed to say it was in vain - not that their are very man true Christians who give nearly that much.
Again for what its worth, I was a damn good little Christian, untill I picked up the bible and fucking actually read it. How anyone could read that book and offer praise to its god is far beyond me. I wouldn’t offer my worship to that god if he was real and the universe creator. I’d rather go to hell and kick it with Satan. I believe he’d have a nice spot for me next to him, kickin’ back sippin’ brews, chucking some fireballs at some child molesters.
Anyway, I still find myself reading these threads and listening to anyone willing to preach on religion; just looking for a scrap of something to cling to in order to find faith. I’ve looked thoroughly for something like that and I’ll tell ya, I sure as hell have not find it in the least. What I’m saying is I wish their was some God I could worship; what better purpose in life than bettering your God? I just sure have not found this God and judging from these asinine threads or listening to the illogical, often downright false preachings of these religious scholars - neither has anyone else.[/quote]
18 years old and you have everything all figured out, huh? You go git 'em, tiger.[/quote]
Is that what you got out of that? Read it again old man. I was asking anyone to tell me why I should worship their god. I am LOOKING for a goddamn excuse to do so. You think anybody likes not having faith? I’m just not a fucking mindless moron who will offer his worship to a false god. Give me a logical reason to worship a god and see if I don’t do so. In my 18 years I have yet to hear 1 goddamn person give 1 goddamn logical reason to offer worship to their god.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
The thing about these religious threads are, for the most part, the only people involved are those with views so profound that they would never possibly change them. Its like arguing with a retard who’s parents told him his shit is concentrated evil. You ain’t going to change his views with reason and absolute logic vs blind faith. That said I am fucking amaaaaaaazed at how thoroughly people can be brainwashed by a religion(or government) from an early age. Far be it from me to pull the holier than though but to be an actual “Christian” or “Muslim”, ect, I see as the sign of a weak minded person. To not be able to question something that has no evidence and is so goddamn illogical is alarming. Lowest common denominator, man.
And for what its worth I am definitely not calling all strict Christians/ect unintelligent. I think some people have just invested so much into the bullshit they believe it would be a near fatal blow to their pride to reconsider. Hell if I gave 10% of my earnings to my “god” for my whole life I’d be goddamn pressed to say it was in vain - not that their are very man true Christians who give nearly that much.
Again for what its worth, I was a damn good little Christian, untill I picked up the bible and fucking actually read it. How anyone could read that book and offer praise to its god is far beyond me. I wouldn’t offer my worship to that god if he was real and the universe creator. I’d rather go to hell and kick it with Satan. I believe he’d have a nice spot for me next to him, kickin’ back sippin’ brews, chucking some fireballs at some child molesters.
Anyway, I still find myself reading these threads and listening to anyone willing to preach on religion; just looking for a scrap of something to cling to in order to find faith. I’ve looked thoroughly for something like that and I’ll tell ya, I sure as hell have not find it in the least. What I’m saying is I wish their was some God I could worship; what better purpose in life than bettering your God? I just sure have not found this God and judging from these asinine threads or listening to the illogical, often downright false preachings of these religious scholars - neither has anyone else.[/quote]
18 years old and you have everything all figured out, huh? You go git 'em, tiger.[/quote]
Ageism is fun.
To clarify, I dont think the bible is a fraud in the sense that it’s purposely misleading. It’s wrong about many things in the way a science textbook from 60 years ago is wrong about many things – its an explanation of how the people of that time understood the world.
What’s actually fraudulent is when people like Push decide to ignore all evidence and logic against anything in it, and dogmatically claim it to be completely and exactly true.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
The thing about these religious threads are, for the most part, the only people involved are those with views so profound that they would never possibly change them. Its like arguing with a retard who’s parents told him his shit is concentrated evil. You ain’t going to change his views with reason and absolute logic vs blind faith. That said I am fucking amaaaaaaazed at how thoroughly people can be brainwashed by a religion(or government) from an early age. Far be it from me to pull the holier than though but to be an actual “Christian” or “Muslim”, ect, I see as the sign of a weak minded person. To not be able to question something that has no evidence and is so goddamn illogical is alarming. Lowest common denominator, man.
And for what its worth I am definitely not calling all strict Christians/ect unintelligent. I think some people have just invested so much into the bullshit they believe it would be a near fatal blow to their pride to reconsider. Hell if I gave 10% of my earnings to my “god” for my whole life I’d be goddamn pressed to say it was in vain - not that their are very man true Christians who give nearly that much.
Again for what its worth, I was a damn good little Christian, untill I picked up the bible and fucking actually read it. How anyone could read that book and offer praise to its god is far beyond me. I wouldn’t offer my worship to that god if he was real and the universe creator. I’d rather go to hell and kick it with Satan. I believe he’d have a nice spot for me next to him, kickin’ back sippin’ brews, chucking some fireballs at some child molesters.
Anyway, I still find myself reading these threads and listening to anyone willing to preach on religion; just looking for a scrap of something to cling to in order to find faith. I’ve looked thoroughly for something like that and I’ll tell ya, I sure as hell have not find it in the least. What I’m saying is I wish their was some God I could worship; what better purpose in life than bettering your God? I just sure have not found this God and judging from these asinine threads or listening to the illogical, often downright false preachings of these religious scholars - neither has anyone else.[/quote]
18 years old and you have everything all figured out, huh? You go git 'em, tiger.[/quote]
Is that what you got out of that? Read it again old man. I was asking anyone to tell me why I should worship their god. I am LOOKING for a goddamn excuse to do so. You think anybody likes not having faith? I’m just not a fucking mindless moron who will offer his worship to a false god. Give me a logical reason to worship a god and see if I don’t do so. In my 18 years I have yet to hear 1 goddamn person give 1 goddamn logical reason to offer worship to their god.
[/quote]
I consider myself a pantheist. My god is the universe. You should worship the universe because (a) you can’t deny its existence (since you would have to exist in order to deny it, and even if only you exist, then that’s the universe and it exists 
), and (b) it contains lots of beautiful women.
Think about it.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
The thing about these religious threads are, for the most part, the only people involved are those with views so profound that they would never possibly change them. Its like arguing with a retard who’s parents told him his shit is concentrated evil. You ain’t going to change his views with reason and absolute logic vs blind faith. That said I am fucking amaaaaaaazed at how thoroughly people can be brainwashed by a religion(or government) from an early age. Far be it from me to pull the holier than though but to be an actual “Christian” or “Muslim”, ect, I see as the sign of a weak minded person. To not be able to question something that has no evidence and is so goddamn illogical is alarming. Lowest common denominator, man.
And for what its worth I am definitely not calling all strict Christians/ect unintelligent. I think some people have just invested so much into the bullshit they believe it would be a near fatal blow to their pride to reconsider. Hell if I gave 10% of my earnings to my “god” for my whole life I’d be goddamn pressed to say it was in vain - not that their are very man true Christians who give nearly that much.
Again for what its worth, I was a damn good little Christian, untill I picked up the bible and fucking actually read it. How anyone could read that book and offer praise to its god is far beyond me. I wouldn’t offer my worship to that god if he was real and the universe creator. I’d rather go to hell and kick it with Satan. I believe he’d have a nice spot for me next to him, kickin’ back sippin’ brews, chucking some fireballs at some child molesters.
Anyway, I still find myself reading these threads and listening to anyone willing to preach on religion; just looking for a scrap of something to cling to in order to find faith. I’ve looked thoroughly for something like that and I’ll tell ya, I sure as hell have not find it in the least. What I’m saying is I wish their was some God I could worship; what better purpose in life than bettering your God? I just sure have not found this God and judging from these asinine threads or listening to the illogical, often downright false preachings of these religious scholars - neither has anyone else.[/quote]
18 years old and you have everything all figured out, huh? You go git 'em, tiger.[/quote]
Ageism is fun.[/quote]
Not only that but it’s a worthwhile, appropriate, legitimate pursuit.[/quote]
Sure is you dogmatic, illogical, so-righteous-I-can-ignore-reason old man.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
The thing about these religious threads are, for the most part, the only people involved are those with views so profound that they would never possibly change them. Its like arguing with a retard who’s parents told him his shit is concentrated evil. You ain’t going to change his views with reason and absolute logic vs blind faith. That said I am fucking amaaaaaaazed at how thoroughly people can be brainwashed by a religion(or government) from an early age. Far be it from me to pull the holier than though but to be an actual “Christian” or “Muslim”, ect, I see as the sign of a weak minded person. To not be able to question something that has no evidence and is so goddamn illogical is alarming. Lowest common denominator, man.
And for what its worth I am definitely not calling all strict Christians/ect unintelligent. I think some people have just invested so much into the bullshit they believe it would be a near fatal blow to their pride to reconsider. Hell if I gave 10% of my earnings to my “god” for my whole life I’d be goddamn pressed to say it was in vain - not that their are very man true Christians who give nearly that much.
Again for what its worth, I was a damn good little Christian, untill I picked up the bible and fucking actually read it. How anyone could read that book and offer praise to its god is far beyond me. I wouldn’t offer my worship to that god if he was real and the universe creator. I’d rather go to hell and kick it with Satan. I believe he’d have a nice spot for me next to him, kickin’ back sippin’ brews, chucking some fireballs at some child molesters.
Anyway, I still find myself reading these threads and listening to anyone willing to preach on religion; just looking for a scrap of something to cling to in order to find faith. I’ve looked thoroughly for something like that and I’ll tell ya, I sure as hell have not find it in the least. What I’m saying is I wish their was some God I could worship; what better purpose in life than bettering your God? I just sure have not found this God and judging from these asinine threads or listening to the illogical, often downright false preachings of these religious scholars - neither has anyone else.[/quote]
18 years old and you have everything all figured out, huh? You go git 'em, tiger.[/quote]
Ageism is fun.[/quote]
Not only that but it’s a worthwhile, appropriate, legitimate pursuit.[/quote]
Nah, its bullshit considering you wouldn’t be trying to use the age of an 18 year old born again christian as an argument against his faith.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I consider myself a pantheist. My god is the universe. [/quote]
You’re one of many. Pantheism might just be one of if not the oldest oldest religions known to man.[quote]
…(b) it contains lots of beautiful women.
Think about it.[/quote]
Oh I do. Mucho.
[/quote]
Ok, let me ask you this, seriously and respectfully: Since there have been so many religions in the history of humanity, and each one claims itself to be correct to the exclusion of all others, what makes you think that this one, Christianity, is the right one?
You can say that the bible is true because the bible says it is, and someone else can say that their religion is true because the holy text of their religion says it is… leaving no logical means of deciding which is true.
deorum, come on, admit it, my god wins.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I consider myself a pantheist. My god is the universe. [/quote]
You’re one of many. Pantheism might just be one of if not the oldest oldest religions known to man.[quote]
…(b) it contains lots of beautiful women.
Think about it.[/quote]
Oh I do. Mucho.
[/quote]
Ok, let me ask you this, seriously and respectfully: Since there have been so many religions in the history of humanity, and each one claims itself to be correct to the exclusion of all others, what makes you think that this one, Christianity, is the right one? [/quote]
I’ll answer your question with a question. How do you know it’s not?
[/quote]
I don’t need to know it’s not - look up burden of proof fallacy. This is just, flatly, evasion on your part.
[quote]
[quote]
You can say that the bible is true because the bible says it is, and someone else can say that their religion is true because the holy text of their religion says it is… leaving no logical means of deciding which is true.[/quote]
Although I just presented a long-ass post presenting my logic and I don’t think you read it or if you did you just stumbled through it without giving it much thought, I will answer you this way…no matter how much or how powerful the amount of logic one can inject into a discussion like this one Faith always comes into play.
In fact your lack of faith can in and of itself be faith. You have faith that “logic” holds all the answers. One can logically or illogically argue themselves hither and yon all through “the matrix” and no matter what, you and I and the next guy will have to eventually employ some degree of faith in our conclusions.
(I’ve got to go. Trivia: my yearling stallion is trying to breed his half sister and I already broke it up once while discussing this topic with you fine gentlemen. Yes, I’ve literally already had my fingers in the vagina of my three year old filly trying to figure out if he dumped his load in her. He got the job done. Hopefully, she won’t take. Right now I have to saddle her up and take her to another pasture to get her away from the squealing, horny little devil. Adios.)[/quote]
I’m not really interested in the hyperphilosophical application of faith within a reasonable discussion – yes, I get up in the morning and expect the floor wont break under me, or be liquid, or burn my feet, and, yes, this is a matter of having “faith” that all these things will be consistant from one day to the next, but it’s a far cry to compare that “faith” to the type we’re talking about.
There is faith that goes along with logic and there is faith that opposes logic. To believe in many of the things the bible says as fact, you must employ the latter form - the kind I’m inherently opposed to.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Then why don’t you check out of this discussion? There’s nothing for you here.[/quote]
Ok.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
…
If you want to get scientific-y about it, according to the views of some creationists it was after the Fall of Man that the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics took shape. Decay, i.e., death, began to affect the entire creation, the universe.
…
[/quote]
Thanks, push, I understand. Once again, we are going to have to agree to disagree, but I do appreciate the explanation.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
First of all as a point of minutiae we don’t know it was an apple.
[/quote]
I thought it was a fig?
[quote]novocaine wrote:
is there free will in heaven?
since we are given free will here on earth, and have the option of turning away from god - for which in the end we are punished - is there free will after death?[/quote]
If you believe in the heaven of the new testament, yes. That’s where Lucifer came from, after all. Correct me if I’m wrong.