[quote]Magnate wrote:
Controversy re: individual scoring atm
Awesome.[/quote]
Ya its great isnt it
But say what you will, I like watching gymnastics. Mens and Womens, but I could watch the girls all day
I hate the little dance moves they do in the floor routines - the events about the tumbling, not the ballerina moves imo.
[quote]Magnate wrote:
I hate the little dance moves they do in the floor routines - the events about the tumbling, not the ballerina moves imo.[/quote]
You know I was just thinking the same thing, but some are much worse than others.
But from what I have seen there have been a lot of stepping out of bounds by the men and women.
[quote]Himora22 wrote:
otoko wrote:
Himora22 wrote:
Here is something for ya…
If these girls are 16 then great and good for them…IF NOT, I hope China gets burned and the IOC takes their medals away. Is it just me or dose any one else think China is winning a lot of medals that they normally wouldnt win? I not saying anything I just saying.
I read that they prepared to win as many golds as possible at these Olympics. Program 119. The sports with the most golds available. And sports America, Russia do not dominate like badminton, women’s weightlifting etc.
Regardless of how old the gymnastics team is they beat the US. The US had their chances but they made a few mistakes. The last being falling during the floor routine which sealed it for the Chinese. My wife was a gymnast and she thought the Chinese team was tremendous.
Just sounds like alot of sore losers in this thread.
At the last Olympics Paul Hamm got the gold and Korean gymnast was given an incorrect starting value that was the difference between Bronze and Gold. Sure there are arguments on both sides.
It was a mistake that should never happened and what would have happened differently I do not know. But in the end you should move on.
As far as Paul Hamm beating Taeyoung Yang,that is as much his and/or is couches fault for not saying something about the start value being a 10 instead or a 9.9. Its just like in Golf, you are responsible for your own score card. Plus Hamm didnt break any rules.
But being a sore loser has nothing to do with anything. They set the age limit at 16 for a reason and that is the rule. If they broke it then they should be punished for it ,Male and/or Female. That goes for any country or any competitor including the US
[/quote]
Look there were good arguments on both sides for Paul Hamm and Yang. My point is that that the Koreans should have moved on.
The Chinese girls won the team all-around. There is no controversy about that. The thread starter even brought that under suspicion. If the Americans didn’t make any mistakes they would probably took home gold. How old the Chinese are is not under their control.
Sure if they broke the rules, you are correct. BUt that hasn’t been proven definitively yet. And maybe it never will be. In the Michael Phelps thread there was somebody insinuating that Phelps is doping.
I am sure there are other people who think the same, and are just waiting for him to fail a test because they know he is doping or because he “looks” like he doping.
And even if he never fails a test they will always say that he just wasn’t caught and that is their rationalization for him winning instead of just giving him credit. They hedge before and rationalize after.
If/when the ages of the Chinese are found out then I see the point of this thread. BUT many of the posts in this thread just seem more like rationalization for losing. It wasn’t strange for the Chinese to win, they were the favorites.
I have a feeling that if China ends up with the most medals(golds also), there will be alot of rationalizing going on. Finding reasons why not to give them credit.
Like winning minor sports like ping pong and badminton, state controlled athletic program that determines who will do what sport based on their potential for that sport. Instead of the self-determined model in most countries. Kids not seeing their families. Harsh training environments etc etc.
First I want to say that waiting to see what Shawn Johnson scored on the Floor was about as exciting a moment in these Olympics that there has been. Nastia Liukin, born in Russia, daughter to a Russian champion. And Shawn Johnson couched by a Chinese immigrant, who once competed for China. For the two of them to take 1-2, and it come down to the very end was just awesome to watch.
O and Mary Lue Retton was looking pretty Hot!
[quote]otoko wrote:
Look there were good arguments on both sides for Paul Hamm and Yang. My point is that that the Koreans should have moved on.
The Chinese girls won the team all-around. There is no controversy about that. The thread starter even brought that under suspicion. If the Americans didn’t make any mistakes they would probably took home gold. How old the Chinese are is not under their control.
Sure if they broke the rules, you are correct. BUt that hasn’t been proven definitively yet. And maybe it never will be. In the Michael Phelps thread there was somebody insinuating that Phelps is doping. I am sure there are other people who think the same, and are just waiting for him to fail a test because they know he is doping or because he “looks” like he doping. And even if he never fails a test they will always say that he just wasn’t caught and that is their rationalization for him winning instead of just giving him credit. They hedge before and rationalize after.
If/when the ages of the Chinese are found out then I see the point of this thread. BUT many of the posts in this thread just seem more like rationalization for losing. It wasn’t strange for the Chinese to win, they were the favorites.
I have a feeling that if China ends up with the most medals(golds also), there will be alot of rationalizing going on. Finding reasons why not to give them credit. Like winning minor sports like ping pong and badminton, state controlled athletic program that determines who will do what sport based on their potential for that sport. Instead of the self-determined model in most countries. Kids not seeing their families. Harsh training environments etc etc.
[/quote]
Like I said if they are all 16 then great, Im glad for them and their families. But I expect China to win Badminton and Ping-Pong. I for one dont want to take anything away form them, I think their weight lifters are 2nd to none and amazing. But if they or anyone dose cheat and gets caught you should pay the price, even Phelps
[quote]MightyMaus wrote:
Rob Zombie horror script.
[/quote]
I gotta ask: Why in the hell did you go there in the first place? Why would anyone go to a tiny village in bumfuck China? How did you get there illegally? Why not just get a passport and a visa? When was this?
That’s a pretty fucked up story dude. You can’t just toss it out there and expect everyone to swallow it.
Then again, I can’t say I don’t believe it either. I asked people I worked with in China what happens if they have a second child, and they said they have to pay for it. Then I asked them what happened if you had a third one, and they said “you don’t have a third one.” I don’t really know what that means, and they wouldn’t really get into it.
Also, I’m pretty sure everyone knows you’re not supposed to fuck around with the Chinese government. They don’t have the one-child rule for shits and giggles. We already know they don’t value human life, so I can’t say it would surprise me all that much if the story is true.
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Then I asked them what happened if you had a third one, and they said “you don’t have a third one.” I don’t really know what that means, and they wouldn’t really get into it.
[/quote]
Its like when you get caught stealing and they cut off a hand, get caught a 2nd time any youll need help aiming when you piss
[quote]MightyMaus wrote:
… A horrible story
[/quote]
Yeah I would also like to hear more details. I have lived and worked in China for the last 13 years and have seen vast improvements in the way individuals are treated by the state. It is not where it should be but it is improving and that should be recognized.
If something like that has taken place its a tragedy but I am confident that it did not happen with the governments blessing - China is a huge country and for all its power things do take place without the central governments prior knowledge.
I think we can all agree that police brutality is not unique to China but China bashing just seem to be the ‘in’ thing to do these days.
Hmm guess my drivel actually belongs in politics and world forum…
[quote]otoko wrote:
Look there were good arguments on both sides for Paul Hamm and Yang. My point is that that the Koreans should have moved on.
The Chinese girls won the team all-around. There is no controversy about that. The thread starter even brought that under suspicion. If the Americans didn’t make any mistakes they would probably took home gold. How old the Chinese are is not under their control.
Sure if they broke the rules, you are correct. BUt that hasn’t been proven definitively yet. And maybe it never will be. In the Michael Phelps thread there was somebody insinuating that Phelps is doping.
I am sure there are other people who think the same, and are just waiting for him to fail a test because they know he is doping or because he “looks” like he doping.
And even if he never fails a test they will always say that he just wasn’t caught and that is their rationalization for him winning instead of just giving him credit. They hedge before and rationalize after.
If/when the ages of the Chinese are found out then I see the point of this thread. BUT many of the posts in this thread just seem more like rationalization for losing. It wasn’t strange for the Chinese to win, they were the favorites.
I have a feeling that if China ends up with the most medals(golds also), there will be alot of rationalizing going on. Finding reasons why not to give them credit.
Like winning minor sports like ping pong and badminton, state controlled athletic program that determines who will do what sport based on their potential for that sport. Instead of the self-determined model in most countries. Kids not seeing their families. Harsh training environments etc etc.
[/quote]
Great post.
I’m surprised that people are this surprised about china lying about athlete’s ages. The eastern bloc wasn’t above forcing female athletes to become pregnant and then aborting the babies just to raise their athlete’s hormones. Countries have pretty much always been cheating throughout the olympics, why is this such a surprise?
A lot of people here seem to think this is a Communist thing. It’s NOT, or at least not entirely.
Chinese society does not have the same concept of the individual that we do. That is historical and not a recent phenomenon tied to modern China. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY DONT CARE ABOUT INDIVIDUALS, but rather it does mean that the aspirations of the individual are subordinate to the wishes of the parents, society, etc.
You don’t need to go to China to see this phenomenon. You can see it here, in America, among middle-class Chinese families. The children tow the line of the family.
Depending on your point of view, this can be good or bad. You will probably see less Chinese kids getting lost and fucking up badly. On the other hand, often one sees a deadness in their eyes that comes from not having been allowed to DO ANYTHING they ever really wanted to do. Of course, once in a while what one wants to do corresponds with what society, the family wants of that individual and I guess that works out pretty well for such individuals. For the rest, it’s a fucking wasteland.
Much fun is made of the Jewish mother in popular culture, but there is nothing quite as ferociously demanding and dictatorial as the Chinese mother.
So, people are stoppiing short of the mark if they blame all of this exclusively on Chinese communism. It ain’t that.
In any case, as far as many athletes, you have got to remember that this is a ticket to a potentially better life. So, that might be a reason the parents are so willing to allow their children to go away. Otherwise, they might be stuck forever among the peasantry which is devastatingly poor in China.
[quote]entheogens wrote:
A lot of people here seem to think this is a Communist thing. It’s NOT, or at least not entirely.
Chinese society does not have the same concept of the individual that we do. That is historical and not a recent phenomenon tied to modern China. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY DONT CARE ABOUT INDIVIDUALS, but rather it does mean that the aspirations of the individual are subordinate to the wishes of the parents, society, etc.
You don’t need to go to China to see this phenomenon. You can see it here, in America, among middle-class Chinese families. The children tow the line of the family.
Depending on your point of view, this can be good or bad. You will probably see less Chinese kids getting lost and fucking up badly. On the other hand, often one sees a deadness in their eyes that comes from not having been allowed to DO ANYTHING they ever really wanted to do.
Of course, once in a while what one wants to do corresponds with what society, the family wants of that individual and I guess that works out pretty well for such individuals. For the rest, it’s a fucking wasteland.
Much fun is made of the Jewish mother in popular culture, but there is nothing quite as ferociously demanding and dictatorial as the Chinese mother.
So, people are stoppiing short of the mark if they blame all of this exclusively on Chinese communism. It ain’t that.
In any case, as far as many athletes, you have got to remember that this is a ticket to a potentially better life. So, that might be a reason the parents are so willing to allow their children to go away.
Otherwise, they might be stuck forever among the peasantry which is devastatingly poor in China.[/quote]
Nailed it.
This reminds me of the figure skating fiasco a few years back where the Russians won when the USA CLEARLY had put on a better performance. All of the communist countries scored the Russian team higher than they deserved and vice versa for the USA team.
It turns out those Chinese girls really weren’t 16.
It doesn’t surprise me at all. Someone in their olympics committee will definitely be executed over this.
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
It turns out those Chinese girls really weren’t 16.
It doesn’t surprise me at all. Someone in their olympics committee will definitely be executed over this.[/quote]
So…is the IOC going to do anything ?