Anyone Converting To Islam?

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
41

[quote]extol7extol wrote:

Hello Varqanir-[/quote]

Hello extol7extol.[quote]

People like you often say things like, “History is full of atrocities committed by Christians in the name of Christ.” But unless you can prove that these were really Christians in a way that I must accept, that is, according to the Biblical definition, you are just falsely assuming that anyone who claims to be a Christian is really a Christian.[/quote]

I have never assumed that, falsely or otherwise. I cannot speak for “people like me”, as I have never met one.

I am a bit puzzled that you would require proof that such and such historical figure was a “real Christian”. I confess that I am unable to do this, unfortunately, because God has not allowed me a peek into the Book of Life, in which the names of the Righteous are written.

I’m sure it is, indeed, easily said by you.

For the sake of argument, however, please refer me to the Biblical teaching which vehemently denies that Popes Urban II and Innocent III (who both launched great crusades), as well as Alexander VI (who gave the order for the Spanish to convert the heathen in the Americas), were “true Christians”. What of their cardinals and bishops, and indeed, the knights who hacked and slashed the infidels under papal command?

On which side of the 30 Year War were the true Christians? On which side of the skirmishes in Belfast?

Ignorant people like myself? Do you believe that insulting me adds weight to your argument?

[quote]These people whom you mention above I expect to act that way. I expect them to do those things.

You cite Augustine. Augustine was a damnable heretic. I will also add John Calvin (French theologian) and Martin Luther (German theologian). Both of these men gave nod to the putting to death of men whom they deemed heretics. Neither of these men were true Christians.[/quote]

You seem so sure of yourself. An admirable trait. But are you saying that you, personally, can divine with absolute certainty who is a true Christian and who is not? Does your definition of true Christianity supercede all others?

If so, then you are superior to the hundreds of millions of Christians who have, over the last two millennia, argued, tortured, fought and killed one another…and indeed, are still fighting and dying today…over that very question.

I would not presume to judge whether your particular brand of Christianity is “true” or not: only God may do that. However, I do seem to recall that the book of John tells us “whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life”.

Although I have no way of proving this to your satisfaction, I venture to guess that the men whom I referenced above believed in Jesus quite fervently, and that many of them honestly believed that they were doing the Lord’s work in killing the infidels, much in the same way that many Americans believe that we are doing the Lord’s work by killing Muslim terrrorists today.

Is George W. Bush a true Christian? I imagine that he thinks he is. But that is for God…not him, nor me, nor even extol7extol…to judge.

42

[quote]juninho wrote:

his ‘perversion’ of this verse is no less twisted than the way in which the Quran is perverted both on this site ad by ignorant westerners in general on a regular basis.[/quote]

Thank you, Juninho. I’m glad somebody around here got the joke.

43

[quote]extol7extol wrote:
Shoebolt wrote:

Christianity and Islam are both beautiful religions.

True Christianity alone is beautiful. All others are vile religions which teach self-atonement. Islam is vile. But even more vile than Islam is popular mainstream “christianity”, which is NOT Christianity at all but false self-righteous religion masquerading as true Christianity. Popular, false mainstream “christianity” teaches that Jesus Christ died for everyone without exception.

Whosever work makes the ultimate difference between salvation and damnation, it is that one’s work that actually atones. True Christianity teaches that it is the work of JESUS CHRIST ALONE that makes the ultimate difference between salvation and damnation. Thus, in true Christianity it is Christ who makes atonement for the sins of His people–NOT everyone without exception. All those for whom Christ died will have their sins atoned for and will spend eternity with Christ. And all those for whom Christ did NOT die will spend eternity enduring His righteous fury and indignation.

Popular “christianity” teaches that it is the work of the SINNER that makes the ultimate difference. Thus, in popular “christianity” it is the sinner who makes atonement for his own self. Those who adhere to the aforementioned popular teaching are woefully ignorant of the righteousness of God, and are thus going about to establish a righteousness of their own (Romans 10:1-4).

[/quote]

So your Christianity can beat up everyone elses Christianity?That seems to be the thrust of your argument,or maybe I got it wrong.
Isn’t it just a bit presumptious on your part to think that you have it all figured out and everyone else is mistaken?

44

[quote]extol7extol wrote:
A whole lot of text dripping with indignation about a passage I quoted word for word from the Book of Matthew.
[/quote]

Goodness gracious. I have twice been accused of ignorant assertions, and once of perverting scripture. extol7extol, I would not be surprised if you tried to burn me at the stake for heresy next. :wink:

You will notice that in the post above I made no assertion whatsoever about the New Testament. I merely quoted Matthew, asking deadlifter405 if he recognized the speaker of the quote.

The comment about inaccuracy I made referred to his second statement concerning the Quran, which I notice you chose not to quote, likely because it would have interrupted the flow of your lovely sermon. Just for reference, HERE is what I said that I thought was not entirely accurate:

Incidentally, when Jesus tells his disciples in the Book of Luke, “he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one”, do you think he was referring to steel (or as Paul whimsically puts it, “carnal”) swords, or was Jesus instructing his disciples to sell their clothes so that they could purchase for themselves weapons of the spirit?

45

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

However, can you tell me who said this?
[i]
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household."[/i]

(Hint: it was not Muhammad.)[/quote]

Was it the bad guy in the first highlander movie?

46

A few questions for those of you naive enough to believe the disinformation, propaganda and misinformation put out by the Muslim media machine:

Is it true that 26 chapters of the Qur’an deal with jihad, a fight able-bodied believers are obligated to join (Surah 2:216), and that the text orders Muslims to “instill terror into the hearts of the unbeliever” and to “smite above their necks” (8:12)?

Is the “test” of loyalty to Allah not good acts or faith in general, but martyrdom that results from fighting unbelievers (47:4) - the only assurance of salvation in Islam (4:74; 9:111)?

Are the sins of any Muslim who becomes a martyr forgiven by the very act of being slain while slaying the unbelievers (4:96)?

Are those unable to do jihad - such as women or the elderly - required to give “asylum and aid” to those who do fight unbelievers in the cause of Allah (8:74)?

Does Islam advocate expansion by force? And is the final command of jihad, as revealed to Muhammad in the Quran, to conquer the world in the name of Islam (9:29)?

Is Islam the only religion that does not teach the Golden Rule (48:29)? Does the Quran instead teach violence and hatred against non-Muslims, specifically Jews and Christians (5:50)?

47

[quote]coolexec wrote:
A few questions for those of you naive enough to believe the disinformation, propaganda and misinformation put out by the Muslim media machine:

Is it true that 26 chapters of the Qur’an deal with jihad, a fight able-bodied believers are obligated to join (Surah 2:216), and that the text orders Muslims to “instill terror into the hearts of the unbeliever” and to “smite above their necks” (8:12)?

Is the “test” of loyalty to Allah not good acts or faith in general, but martyrdom that results from fighting unbelievers (47:4) - the only assurance of salvation in Islam (4:74; 9:111)?

Are the sins of any Muslim who becomes a martyr forgiven by the very act of being slain while slaying the unbelievers (4:96)?

Are those unable to do jihad - such as women or the elderly - required to give “asylum and aid” to those who do fight unbelievers in the cause of Allah (8:74)?

Does Islam advocate expansion by force? And is the final command of jihad, as revealed to Muhammad in the Quran, to conquer the world in the name of Islam (9:29)?

Is Islam the only religion that does not teach the Golden Rule (48:29)? Does the Quran instead teach violence and hatred against non-Muslims, specifically Jews and Christians (5:50)?[/quote]

We have already established that other holy books contain passages that at first glance may appear to advocate violence in the name of god.

‘Jihad’, means striving to realise a goal; in this case, the goal being to live a pious, holy life and to urge others to do likewise. It has physical and spiritual connotations, but does not have anything to do with waging war, (although some so called Muslims pervert its meaning for their own political causes).

You are also selective about which passages you choose to quote from, (by the way, are they direct quotes or have you just been browsing one of the many anti-Muslim sites/emails that are doing the rounds these days?)

There are also ample amounts of the Qu’ran devoted to almsgiving and acts of charity, contrary to what you say above.

I refer you also to 2.61-2.63, particularly the line “Jews, Christians and Sabaeans - whoever believes in God and the last day and does what is right - shall be rewarded by their lord. They have nothing to fear or regret”.

48

[quote]juninho wrote:

We have already established that other holy books contain passages that at first glance may appear to advocate violence in the name of god.

[/quote]

And at the second glance…

And at the third, fourth, fifth and so on…

49

[quote]ChuckyT wrote:
BluePfaltz wrote:
I do not agree with the fundamentalists, but I also think they are far less harmful then the Christian right most times.

Jesus Horatio Hubert Humphrey Fucking Christ, are you really that stupid? That is one the goddamnedest, most ignorant, dimwitted, fucking retarded things I have ever read on this site. And that is saying something. Do you know anything about anything?

I’m not a religious person, but at least my brain functions on its own. Let me help you out, although you sound like either a lost cause or mentally handicapped: Christian fundamentalists have the 700 club, and they like to argue a lot about men boning men. Islamic fundamentalists have Sharia courts, and they cut the heads off of gay guys in the town square. Christian fundamentalists have fiery sermons. Islamic fundamentalists send thousands of innocents to fiery deaths in Tel Aviv, New York, and London. Christian fundamentalists worry about ordaining women as priests. Islamic fundamentalists worry about the best way to pack nails, glass, and ball bearings into bombs to go set off at weddings. Christian fundamentalists fuss about evolution and science in the classroom. Islamic fundamentalists write textbooks saying that Jews are apes and animals, and America is possessed by devils. Christian fundamentalists get together and figure out the best way to win elections to further their agenda. Islamic fundamentalists get together and figure out the best way to murder every single opponent to further their agenda.

Get it?

I hope – for the sake of perspective – you convert and move to the Sudan you goddamned troglodyte ignoramus. [/quote]

LOL, Im really glad I managed to piss you off.

Your spewing rebutal of hatred is exactly what I expect from right wing christians.

You can only prove me right at this point.

50

[quote]mazilla wrote:
deadlifter405 wrote:
Let’s summarize the issue:

When a Christian finds religion, he goes out and witnesses to Jesus’ love.

When a Muslim finds religion, he goes out and kills the infidels.

Got it?

your a super tard.
got it?

when a christian finds religion he kills homosexuals and blows up abortion clinics,then sends thousands of troops to their death’s on a whim.not to mention the thousands of foriegn infadels they band together as nation to kill.all the terrorist attacks EVER, since the begininng of Islam can not come close to claiming the amount of life lost to the christian nutballs. you can’t write off all those people in exchange for our own.

you idiots need to open your eyes, focus on what the bible says and follow it if thats your choice of religion. at least the muslims have the stones to follow what they belive everyday, not when it’s convienient for them.of all the “christians” i have met, maybe one in twenty actually has the right to call themselves christian. the rest are hypocritical, self righteous, and all around not a contribution to the actual christian belief. great religion that “christianity”, do whatever the fuck you want for your whole life, just make sure that right before you die you say sorry. what a crock of self-sevring bullshit. must be nice to be free from the guilt you would have just by asking some imaginary force for it. now if you’ll excuse me, i’m gonna kill your entire family. it’s ok, i’ll just say i’m sorry and god will forgive me. get a fucking life brain washed morons, take some responsability for your own actions and stop blaming everything on other religions.

god damn it. fuck jesus, allah, budah, zoroaster,sheeba,and every other fucker i forgot.lying bastards, and a bunch of con artists spreading “their words”. kill yourslef and the world will be a better place.

now feel free to smoke my cock.[/quote]

This is officially the best Post in Politics and World Issues I have ever.

51

[quote]BluePfaltz wrote:

Your spewing rebutal of hatred is exactly what I expect from right wing christians.

You can only prove me right at this point. [/quote]

Speaking as a right wing Christian, I love you. Just as Jesus commands me to do!

52

I’m converting to Islam just for the 40 virgins, but I’m requesting them in advance.

53

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
I’m converting to Islam just for the 40 virgins, but I’m requesting them in advance.[/quote]

They only promised you forty? You got gypped, man! The going rate is forty-seven!

Hey Doogie…forty-seven doe-eyed maidens of Paradise has gotta trump bacon, wouldn’t ya say?

54

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
I’m converting to Islam just for the 40 virgins, but I’m requesting them in advance.

They only promised you forty? You got gypped, man! The going rate is forty-seven!

Hey Doogie…forty-seven doe-eyed maidens of Paradise has gotta trump bacon, wouldn’t ya say?[/quote]

But bacon tastes good.
Pork chops taste good.

55

[quote]doogie wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
I’m converting to Islam just for the 40 virgins, but I’m requesting them in advance.

They only promised you forty? You got gypped, man! The going rate is forty-seven!

Hey Doogie…forty-seven doe-eyed maidens of Paradise has gotta trump bacon, wouldn’t ya say?

But bacon tastes good.
Pork chops taste good.[/quote]

So do virgins.

56

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
I’m converting to Islam just for the 40 virgins, but I’m requesting them in advance.

They only promised you forty? You got gypped, man! The going rate is forty-seven!

Hey Doogie…forty-seven doe-eyed maidens of Paradise has gotta trump bacon, wouldn’t ya say?[/quote]

Believe me, if you can find 47 virgins these days (of age), there would be AT LEAST 7 you don’t want.

On the other hand, Adrianna Lima claims she is a virgin, if she was guaranteed, I might consider Islam.

57

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
doogie wrote:

Hey Doogie…forty-seven doe-eyed maidens of Paradise has gotta trump bacon, wouldn’t ya say?

But bacon tastes good.
Pork chops taste good.

So do virgins.

[/quote]

Bacon-wrapped virgins are sinfully delicious.

58

Virgin = timid, clumsy, inexperienced.

Gimme 40 sluts who swallow and aren’t afraid of being spanked.

But even then, I still wouldn’t convert. I can get sluts on my own just fine, and the no alcohol thing is a definite deal-breaker.

59

[quote]extol7extol wrote:
Shoebolt wrote:

Christianity and Islam are both beautiful religions.

True Christianity alone is beautiful. All others are vile religions which teach self-atonement. Islam is vile. But even more vile than Islam is popular mainstream “christianity”, which is NOT Christianity at all but false self-righteous religion masquerading as true Christianity. Popular, false mainstream “christianity” teaches that Jesus Christ died for everyone without exception.

Whosever work makes the ultimate difference between salvation and damnation, it is that one’s work that actually atones. True Christianity teaches that it is the work of JESUS CHRIST ALONE that makes the ultimate difference between salvation and damnation. Thus, in true Christianity it is Christ who makes atonement for the sins of His people–NOT everyone without exception. All those for whom Christ died will have their sins atoned for and will spend eternity with Christ. And all those for whom Christ did NOT die will spend eternity enduring His righteous fury and indignation.

Popular “christianity” teaches that it is the work of the SINNER that makes the ultimate difference. Thus, in popular “christianity” it is the sinner who makes atonement for his own self. Those who adhere to the aforementioned popular teaching are woefully ignorant of the righteousness of God, and are thus going about to establish a righteousness of their own (Romans 10:1-4).

[/quote]

Sorry but I can’t consider you to be a Christian. Your posts are full of hatred, intolerance and ignorance. Thats that opposite of the trademarks of a true Christian.

60

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
extol7extol wrote:
A whole lot of text dripping with indignation about a passage I quoted word for word from the Book of Matthew.

[/quote]

Varqanir, why are you misquoting me above? I never said that. Those are not my words.