Thanks for clearing this matter up, jmb. Hetyey, you’re a fuckin’ idiot. You owe john an apology, bro. Study, schmudy. HIT SUCKS. PERIOD. Learn to spell and use proper grammar and perhaps you’ll have a better shot at dragging some poor newbie into your HIT cult because maybe then they’ll actually think you’re somewhat educated.
Hetyey is not a fuckin’ idiot. H.I.T. as a concept has a relevant application to non-drug using trainers. I think Mike Mentzer’s ideas were the extreme on the volume/frequency spectrum but if he made people aware of the recovery issue then this was a very significant contribution. Just ask Mr Dorian Yates.
Hey guys, just an update. Out of curiousity and time restraints last week, I followed a HIT type of routine of 2 whole body workouts every set to failure and no other weight training. To make a long story short, I feel like shit. The workouts were very intense, but so brief that I don’t think I even broke a sweat. I feel just like I do when I miss a couple workouts. No pump whatsoever, only that burning feeling you get when the set is extended to the maximum, along with a nearly exploded vein in my neck from strain. I’ll stick with higher volume.
If you did not break a sweat then you did not train intensely. Also, if you hurt your neck, you trained sloppily. That is a big HIT no-no.
I have tried one set to failure and it works for about 3-4 weeks. Other than that, it is a complete waste of time. Nothing else in life is trained to failure so why should training? I have personally always stopped one rep short of failure and have achieved excellent strength and size gains. ne set to failure is okay to do every once and a while, but not all the time.
no, i didn’t hurt my neck. it was supposed to be a joke. a bad one i guess. i was pulling or whatever as hard as i could with the bar going nowhere. and believe me, i trained as intensely as humanly possible. no sweat.
How do you know when you are 1 rep short of failure? If you progress, you won’t know exactly how strong you are, so you will not know when failure is until you get there. Propaghandi, are you very small (less that 120 pounds) or do you work out in a gym < 15 degrees C? Really, if you do a set of squats, you will sweat. If you follow them up with deads or calf raises or whatever you will sweat more. Just as not training alot can de-condition one to higher volume, it is possible that training easy has made you think you are failing when you really have more reps left. How many sets where you doing? Any thing less than 4 is very suspect (even then, squats, dips, chins and deads are really not complete). Try doing the routine out of one of the nautilus books.
man, why is it that you HIT guys can’t believe that someone would think the workouts are pussyish? I did a total of 10 sets, squats, stiff leg deads, leg curls, calf raises, dumbell bench, one arm row, dumbell press overhead, chin ups, curls, and lying extension. After being used to doing upwards of 30 sets per workout, 4 times per week, that is damn next to nothing.
No, I'm not 120lbs. I'm 6', 187, very low bf (all abs etched to perfection). I have a very extensive athletic career behind me, including the beginnings of a professional career which I recently ended. I'm not big, that's for sure, but I'm also more interested in being ripped and strong than big. And I haven't met a girl yet who's seen me shirtless who hasn't ogled and stared, mouth agape, panties wet.
Dude, it's okay that I don't like HIT. I was just giving an update that I tried it. You're not going to prove to me that I must be doing something wrong if it's not working. Because no small change is going to make any difference. I'm in good shape Colin, and the workout I did just didn't tax me enough. The simple truth is that I think the workouts are too easy and don't work for me.
Colin Lets say that 7 is my limit on an exercise. I will do sets of 4-5 instead of 1-7 and then test the max number 2 times a month.
Mike Mahler:
Sure, I understand that. But my point is on any given day you might be weaker or stronger. Also, don’t you have good stretches once in a while? I know I do. Once in a while I gain alot of reps from one workout to another, sometimes even weight and reps. When this happens it is a nice surprise. How can you take advantage of this while stopping short?
Colin, as I stated I do not stop shor each time and usually do something like this. When I can lift a certain weight for 5x5 I jump up 10lbs. This system has worked very well for me.
I’ve pesonally talked to Louie and Dave Tate. The school Loiue talked about with the lineman was my alma mater, Penn State. I’d give you the football player’s name, but don’t wish to cause any hard feelings with the parties invloved. I’ve tried Westside’s methods, which to me, seem very well rounded and researched. Penn State has used HIT for years. They also recruit top five to ten every year. They are getting the best athletes in the country, but won one Rose bowl in ten years. I dsaw them get man handeled by Toledo the other year, which happens to be Dave Tate’s school.
If I’m not mistaken , I think Coach Davies has worked with Pitt. They have consistently given PSU a tought battle the last few years, winning in 2000. Coach correct me if I’m wrong, but I would love for him or Loiue to torture my boys.
I’ve tried Loiue’s methods on myself to a tee. I made more gains with the westside in two months, stregnth wise, than a when i did HIT in the late 80’s. Guys, I’m anal about training, recuperation, rest, etc. and I sdidn’t see the stregnth and mass gains. Believe it or not I also thougth the Westside workouts semed easier. My program was as Loiue has outlined with about 16- 22 work sets in a session. The HIT was three three times a week for app 8- 12 sets, or less a session with various protocols, pre exhaust, super slow, breathing squats, etc. I was handeling 300 for 20 in the squat without any appreciable max gains. I also cosisttently hovered at 175 with 15 % bodyfat. I’m now 192 with the same % fat, but much stronger. It just doesn’t work as well as other programs, but seems to market well.
i can’t believe Penn State is allowed to use HIT. It says in Science and Practice that the author, Vladimir M. Zatsiorsky, is a prof at Penn State. I am suprised he doesn’t go out and lecture the strength department. Among other things, Zatsiorsky got 2 gold medals in the USSR for best scientific research in sport, and was a consultant to the olympic teams for 26 years.
dman, appeal to authority is an intellectually bankrupt argument device. And, unfortunatley, that seems to be the only value of citing “Scientific” publications. How is this, The Wachington Redskins started HIT in 82’ and the won 3 super bowls in the 8 years after. Just because some teams win and some teams lose proves nothing.
Just want to give a little history about the HIT connection to science. Way back, A. Jones settled into FL to begin his Nautilus company and spread the philosophy of HIT. He made a significant contribution to the exercise science dept. at U of FL at Gainesville, where the M. Pollock so frequently referenced was running the lab (and did so right up until he died about 5 yrs ago). Pollock used Jones’ lifting protocols (I assume because he was an aerobics guy) and studied wt. training from that perspective throughout his career. He was also very active in the ACSM, helping author their somewhat famous Guidelines for Fitness. Guess what the guidelines are for resistance training? The old Nautilus Protocol (2-3 days per wk; 8-10 exercises per full body workout; 8-12 reps to fatigue; 1-3 sets per exercise-- “though there is little improvement seen in 3 sets vs 1, compared to time devoted”). Why? Mainly, due to the fact that at the time the ACSM fellows were not doing much in the way of resistance training studies so the studies coming out of FL carried alot of relative weight. As you all know science never attempts to prove anything, but rather to eliminate possibilities until the “truth” is revealed. This requires numerous studies, each adding it’s own bit to the growing pile of evidence until the picture gets clearer. So, back to FL. Pollock himself, the researcher that has essentially put HIT protocols on the scientific map, made it very clear that his guidelines were meant for the average “apparently healthy” American trying to get into better health, improve general fitness and, most importantly, comply with long term exercise (this is a major theme in the ACSM as they push for their objective of improving the avg. health of the US population). He states in my notes from the ACSM national meeting in Denver, that the ACSM Guidelines (which are directly from A. Jones’ theories/protocols) are inappropriate for athletes seeking to improve performance, maximize hypertrophy, or for rehab situations where higher volume was needed to improve motor skill. This is restated in the outline of a talk he was scheduled to give in Nashville, Tn during the NSCA national conference the same summer he died. His outline had already been printed in the conference notebook although he did not make it there. When you look at his test subject populations it is obvious that his main concern was to improve general health, he seldom dealt with athletes and did not even influence the athletic dept at his own school to follow his protocols. The Gators are evil, periodizing bastards that don’t lose easily! So anyway, thought this might shed some new light on all this scientific research debating. Note that I never said it didn’t work or that there was no research to back it up, I am simply providing a more accurate position from which to view the limited number of studies on the subject.
I would rather listen to Jones’ ramblings than review one hundred “studies”. He claims to have personally supervised thousands of workouts in his years at nautlius, and while some rare individuals barley grow, results were always good. iartonline.ca has interviews with sergio oliva, casey viator and they will tell you that they grew best on hit and that the wieder reports were bullshit. Also, go to cyberpump and look at the arthur jones gallery in the training section. You will see before and after photos of casey viator (10 days apart) that are unbeleivable. Also, there is a very rare photo of arthur with his shirt off at about 50 years of age. You will be impressed. I consider all of this more important than studies of any kind, they conflict each other too grossly.
correction, the viator photos are about 30 days appart
No, and I don’t have any scientific proof that Ronnie Coleman uses steroids either, but I’m definent of both.