[quote]56x11 wrote:
[quote]Grove wrote:
[quote]56x11 wrote:
Grove,
Thanks for responding in this subforum.
The reason I prefer BSL is that it gets a lot more traffic from people who actually lift and have the integrity to state that their experience is just that - theirs. In other words, they don’t just scrape some info off a 'net search and pretend to be an expert. Hell, I can get my 12 year old nephew to do the same thing on his tablet. Would I actually take weight lifting advice from him…?
[quote]Grove wrote:
- athletic history - former basketball player. 45 yo, 6’5, 230lbs. I consider myself athletic, no major injuries.
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Doesn’t appear that your former sport caused much irritation to the area. If anything, you may have jumped in too heavy too soon into weight training without a solid foundation.
[quote]Grove wrote:
- I have mobility issues from being a desk jockey now. I continue to try and improve this with t-spine work, foam rolling, stretching etc…
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By all means, continue. The maddening aspect about trying to instill this into people is that it rarely gives immediate results. It takes time to undo months or years of incorrect posture/lifting.
You may want to consider the ergonomics of your working environment. This may sound trivial, but it sounds like you spend a good eight hours per day or so in a relatively fixed position.
If possible, set a timer at 15-20 minute intervals. When that thing beeps, do something to get out of that fixed position and perform mini-mobility work. It can be something as simple as opening up t-spine, squeezing the scaps together and down, just standing up and squeezing the glutes to push the pelvis into posterior tilt…you get the the idea. Repeatedly remind your body what proper posture is.
[quote]Grove wrote:
- Used to ez bar curl heavy a lot. Heavy db’s also. Past 3-4 years have been only hammer curls, light weight. Still irritates / burns inside of elbow.
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The reason hammer curls using relatively light weight now bothers you is that the damage has already been done.
Although the ez bar does give some relief, it still places the wrist and elbows in a fixed position. If your limbs are proportional to a 6’5" male, that also tells me that the lever (forearm) is longer than that of the average male.
For example, I’m 5’10" with a +1 ape index. This makes my lever shorter than yours. Also, although I don’t have imaging to prove this, I’m quite certain that my biceps attach to the forearm in a much more advantageous position. This further adds to my edge as far as curling heavy.
So if you’re at a gym and see me repping out with 165lbs, don’t get into that knee-jerk reaction of adding more weight to your bar, just so you can keep up with the neighbor (but hey, you’d bagel me in a one-on-one basketball game).
Get out of that mindset (if you’re in it) that just because you weigh an x amount, you should curl a certain percentage of that number.
[quote]Grove wrote:
- When performing chin-ups, I have a straight bar only. But I also use a v attach over the bar sometimes for neutral grip. this helps.
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This, to me, is a bit of a conundrum. If curls irritate the medial aspect of your elbows (where the flexors attach) then straight bar chins should have similar results. Perhaps the fact that other muscles such as the lats, rear delts, triceps long head, mid/lower traps, rhomboids, pec minor, etc are along for the ride helps.
Regardless, I won’t be shocked if, sooner or later, chins begin to bother you. One method of proactively addressing is using a NON-FIXED DEVICE.
Scroll down to 8/14/2011 post in which I posted a vid. At your height, this will make it even more challenging to find a high-enough set up. Since around 2010, I’ve performed a majority of my pull ups/one arms/dips/push ups using this principle and it’s one of the best decisions I made. It is MORE challenging than a fixed set up so do not be discouraged if your numbers are lower using this.
[quote]Grove wrote:
- I do nothing to my knowledge to strengthen the extensors of elbow - clueless on this?
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Plenty of info out there if you’re sufficiently motivated. One method I employ is the unilateral cable (or band) push downs with the palm facing UP. Keep the wrist neutral (or in a position of slight extension) and the act of performing the movement will recruit the extensors. No need to go heavy on this and keep it as more of a finisher.
[quote]Grove wrote:
- Neutral grip curls / hammer curls in light moderation do not cause pain, but continued use will irritate at times
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I already covered this earlier.
Another thing is that even though hammer or pin wheel curls preferentially recruit the brachioradialis (as well as the brachialis in the upper arm), the flexors of the forearm will be somewhat involved. And as the brachioradilis fatigues, then flexors will kick in more to help.
As far as gripping the db, if you choke up where the thumb/index finger area of the hand is braced against the db, this may help you on the hammer and pinwheels.
And you also need to incorporate controlled eccentrics when feasible. There’s a time to incorporate the stretch reflex and a time to minimize the eccentric portion of the lift. AFTER I’m done with heavy deads or speed work, I make it a point to do 3-5 second eccentrics on the accessory/vanity lifts. Not only will this allow to get more out of less weight, it absolutely will help with connective tissue strengthening.
[quote]Grove wrote:
- Current program is layers by CT. Bench / push press / squat / trap bar deads. I also like adding a BBB assistance after each session (after bench, add a few sets of 10 press, after TB, add some front squats, etc…
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I DESPISE when someone tries to tell one of my people to alter the programming I wrote out for them. These people have little to no clue of why I wrote the custom program. And they usually are not very strong and/or look mediocre and/or are injured.
In that regard, if you’re running Thibs’ program, you need to go into his subforum and ask for a possible replacement of the trap bar deads.
[quote]Grove wrote:
- I do not regularly work on myself, except for the mobility drills mentioned above.
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This why I suggested yesterday that you look into trigger points/adhesions.
In the injury subforum, croatian mentioned cross friction therapy. This is just one method and he probably recommended it because it’s the one that he’s familiar with.
However, I remind you of the wonderful advice given by Emerson:
�??�?�¢??As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.�??�?�¢??
The PRINCIPLE that you need to be aware of is to resolve the trigger points/adhesions. Once you understand this, you can take Emerson’s cue and discover the METHOD that works best for you.
This exactly why I did NOT specify a particular modality in my earlier posts.
One thing that I can tell you is that I’ve had great success with myself and my people is to work on the adhesions before and after loading. Everyone knows about pre but very few realize that if you do this post, the body may be in a more receptive state.
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Hey 56x11, really appreciate the time you put in to this…thanks. Sounds like you know your stuff. I will apply your suggestions, though a replacement for the trap bar is going to be tough = its one of my staples that has really helped improve my overall strength. Will definitely try the reverse band idea and the swivel handles on the chins. I have done the hammer curl holding close to the bell and it did help. Good suggestion about the eccentric. And mobility work is definitely a life thing, they just don’t make desks for 6’5 freaks. Thanks again and I will follow up with you in a bit.[/quote]
Glad I could provide some insight. As stated before the info I give has a foundation based on science and is topped off with empirical knowledge gained in the weight room and helping many other people.
As previously stated, there are a handful of knowledgeable lifters in BSL who won’t suffer trolls and pretenders. So they will also give some feedback on your case.
You can try wrist straps on the trap bar deads. This may help. Since you are running CT’s program, it’s best to defer this to him.
I don’t know if it gets chilly where you train. If it does, keeping those elbows warm will also help when training. Sleeves or even socks with the toes cut out will work. I don’t recommend elbow wraps in that they can give a false sense of health/security. The LAST thing you need to load the elbows with excessive weight.
The beauty of bands is they are very portable. I still have my Elite micro bands from 2010 (not sure if they even sell those anymore) and I often do restoration work: very light resistance for moderate to high reps using easy tempo that promotes blood flow.
I wager that once you resolve this issue, you’ll be glad you never got rid of your dbs. It’s just going to take time and there WILL be stock-market like fluctuations in that you’ll have bull and bear days. As long as the overall trend is moving upward, you’ll get there. At the risk of sounding like a greeting card, the fundamentals of staying positive and keeping an open mind are key.
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LOL @ science, and not a single evidence based article was presented that day
OMG hes giving advice get his IP addresses and pursue!!!
not srs