It’s fair to say that if a person gets useful numbers from a method, then the fact that the method doesn’t actually have a biological basis and isn’t really based on that method, has nothing to do with getting the good results.
If in practice your ratio method – within a given range of doses anyway – gives useful values then very good.
However, it being more of a method of figuring rather than a reality, if it so happens that something that would work well for a person falls outside the ratios, then a person should not worry that the calculated value is different.
E.g., let’s say that someone has liked a gram of testosterone per week, and liked trenbolone, but past a low dose such as 35 mg/day they get night sweats that are just too bothersome. And they wonder if it would be okay to take a gram of test and 35 mg/day TA. They should not worry about the ratio.
Or likewise if someone has liked 100 mg/day TA and in the past has used Dianabol with it, and for whatever reason is not going to use an antiaromatase and/or does not want to use much testosterone because of previous experiences with their skin or whatever, if they wonder if they would do OK with 100 mg/day and just some quite modest dose of testosterone such as 250-350 mg/week, again they need not worry about the ratio. They won’t get the added outcome they would from more testosterone than that, but they won’t be in the toilet either.
Also where I have a little bit of objection to the ratio method is that it has an underlying premise that more of one requires more of the other. But this is not so.[/quote]
BR certainly your point has a bit more meat on its bones than my ratio suggestion. Far and away even I am not following my own protocol on ratios but more precisely adjusting different products quantity based on the holistic cycle contents.
If one thing remains true though its that I still advise I greater level of test to tren and more often than not I find using more of test to tren “ratio” helps. In real world practice though it seems dialing in the tren ratio usually means reducing the tren dose.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
It is too soon to be sure but a number of users (including myself) who chronically had some acne problems post-cycle stopped having that problem on stopping using SERMs post-cycle.
It is also too soon to be sure whether anti-aromatase alone is really sufficient. Presently I would not recommend it – but rather the traditional approach – for anything past 8 weeks, and would recommend even if only 8 weeks or less, being ready to use a SERM if recovery seems to lag.
But anyway, it is starting to look as though SERMs may be a major culprit in post-cycle acne, even perhaps the prime culprit.
(And, back on topic, estrogen as a major culprit during cycles.)[/quote]
Interestingly I dont get worse acne during PCT but on cycle. That may well be because I no longer use SERM’s in PCT. Favoring instead the test taper method.
Well tht tren didn’t get here on time so I ended up doing this cycle.
Test E weeks 1-12 at 750mgs a wk (375mgs 2 times a wk) with a 900mg frontload
Deca weeks 1-9 at 400msgs a wk (200 mgs 2 times a week) with a 500mg frontload
Dianabol weeks 1-4 at 75mgs a week but I lowered it at wk 2 to 50mgs a week(liver toxic)
adex at .5mgs EOD from wk 1-14 (might still up it to .5mgs ED)
Nolva at wks 14-18,40/40/20/20
Everything looks good.
I’m going to do everything the same for the next cycle but replace the Deca with tren and go 50mgs ED from wk 1-10 and eliminate the dianabol.
Any other suggestions on a dianabol replacement for wks 1-4???
Also l welcome suggestions on a third cycle that would involve tren and test but need to know what to add to help turn this into a cutting cycle.
As far as the cutting reason.I’ll be competing in a grappling tourney.Just want the cycle to keep me lean without retaining water.Hopefully maintain a good portion of my muscle mass but be at the lowest weight possible while doing this.Also I know Tren is the sure answer to put in the cycle but unfortunately I will still need to maintain my cardio but as mentioned above it would be nice to include it and have another aas counter this.
So have I - I suffer terribly from breathing issues on AAS - and after starting a 2g cycle of dbol, test, tren and mast it is worse than ever - but dbol REALLY makes it worse for me. I assume it is the sharp rises in BP 4x a day.
As for your cycle, Mast would be better to replace tren, it will still help you lipolyze fatty stores as a high androgen, increase strength and promote a hard, lean physique. Add in 400-500mg Test P to 400-500mg Mast P and you will have a nice cutting cycle. It should give you less breating troubles… i have always assumed it is a BP related side effect personally.
Further add in a drug such as 350mg/wk winstrol over 6 weeks and you should have even more increased strength, enough AAS to maintain during a relatively harsh cut, and a cycle that will promote lean and dry gains - with use of an AI of course.
Halotestin is an option as a potent androgen at just 2x10mg/day, you will get a surge in strength and aggression which may or may not be warranted in your fight. For example if you are likely to lose your temper, you may choose not to use it as it could lose you your clarity.
Things are going well on this cycle.Happy with the gains.
Just have a question in regards to nor19’s
My cycle right now is
Test E at 750mgs a wk 12wks
Deca at 400mgs/wk 8wk
A-dex at .5mgs ED(find this is working best)
I also did a frontload on the test and Deca.
Also it is my first time useing adex and I have found it has taken away alot of the mood swings and achne from previous cycles as well as the bloating.Very Happy.
I ran a 12 week cycle but this will be the last time at this length.After reading all the info I will be doing 8 week cycles in the future.
Anywhere here is my question.My cycle will now take 13 weeks as the Test E is dosed at 250mgs/ml as compared to the old test E that was 200mgs/ml.So My test E will last about another week or 2 longer.My Deca will be done at 8 weeks.I would like to do a bottle of tren A btwn the deca ending and the Test ending.
Any thoughts on this?
I thought I would have enough time for the Deca to be finished and still enough time before the Test is done.I know Nor19’s shouldn’t be used together or at the same time.Just thought there will be enough time to use both as they won’t be used at the same time.
Anyways would appreciate any good or harsh advice.It’s all good info in the end.
Doesn’t sound like a bad idea to me. It’s a good opportunity to finish your cycle strong and also to compare deca and tren. You could even continue the tren ace up to a few days before PCT since it is such a short ester (during the 2 weeks required for test e level to fall enough to start PCT). You might want to throw some HCG in the mix until 1 week prior to PCT to facilitate recovery from a long and highly suppressive cycle.
Yeah I haven’t done Tren yet and was going to work it into this cycle but it took a little to long to get here so I ran the deca instead.So I’m pretty excited to test it out and I hate the idea of waithing another 4 months to try it.
I’m guessing (not good to do) that the deca would take 1 1/2 to 2 weeks after my last injection before I could use the test(If sommeone could give me a time frame) so I would be running the tren from week 10-12(aprox).
Anyways that’s the plan then unless someone else chimes in that that is bad.
The deca will take 2.5 weeks after last inject to descend to PCT levels (at 400mg/w anyway). IMO, it is not necessary to wait that amount of time before starting the tren ace. With proper AI dosing (and HCG optional but very helpful to facilitate recovery) you should be OK to start tren immediately upon cessation of deca or you could possibly wait 1 week for it to clear to about 1/2 of your cycle level.
So let’s see:
W1-12: Test E 750mg/w
W1-8: Deca 400mg/w
W10-14: Tren ace 350mg/w (50mg/d) ==> depending on supply or W11-14 based on your choice of 4 or 5 week run
W13: Test prop 50mg/d (Not much prop needed with test e levels still high)
W14: Test prop 90mg/d (more prop needed to keep test level stable as test e now much lower)
W1-14: A-dex at 0.5mg/d (adjust as required)
W15-18: Nolva PCT W1&2: 40mg/d | W3&4: 20mg/d
(Start 3 days after last test prop shot and/or 1 or two days after last tren a shot.)
The prop is optional and bolsters the effectiveness of the 2 weeks while you are waiting for test e to clear adequately to start PCT. It ensures adequate test to complement tren a too (although the remaining level of test e or HCG would have been adequate for this purpose). It also cuts a week of suppression from your already relatively long cycle (since you stop test e 1 week earlier). The prop doses are based on 100mg/ml.
Adex can be run throughout your PCT (and for a few weeks beyond if desired) at much lower dosage (0.14mg EOD).
Others with experience running tren so soon after deca can chime in as I have never run tren nor deca. I am just going by the experiences of others and what seems to make sense.
Well I appreciate the advice so I’ll keep u updated.
Started the Tren at 40mgs ED.Just getting into the second week and will be doing 50mgs ED.Then I depending on how I feel I will max out at 75mgs ED for 3 more weeks.The prop is going to be started tomorrow at 75mgs ed and moved up to 100mgs as I increase the tren.
Once again I will see how I feel before uping the dose.
Some things I’m noticing from the tren.
Can’t sleep worth a shit.tossing and turning every 30mins.Really hard to function the next day.Hope this mellows out.
Temper thru the roof.Little things get me worked up so easy.Don’t have alot of patience for people.
Feel nauseaus all the time.Don’t want to eat and just overall feel pretty shitty.
Last cardio is hurt.Def I have to do something about this.I’m lifting heavier weight and tougher sets and I am gassed hard after every set.Heard iron joe mention mast helped this out also have heard anavar is good for cardio.
Can’t work it into this set but would like to work it into my next cycle.
1g test E or tesd c a week.Still out on which test to go with.E gave me sleeping problems also.
525mgs of tren ace.(75mgs ED)
Adex at .5mgs ED(worked well last time)
I’m skipping the dbol.Didn’t like the cramping and BP going thru the roof.
PCT will be nolva 40,40,20,20each week.
Will be front loading the test also and would like options to work Mast or Anavar to help with the cardio.Possible doses or anything else u think could be substituted to help ot.
