Any Dudes Wanna Get Married?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
783

[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:
doesn’t fit in? with who? the fine community internet forum debaters? i think of been through worse than some dub dubs (that young punk lingo) laughing at me as you say they will, im pretty sure ill live. how are you gonna treat me like a punk? you sure as hell not getting this guys lunch money[/quote]

Wow…just wow.[/quote]

i have that effect[/quote]

All kids have that effect who show up to an adult function. First we think, wait a minute this kid has nothing to add. Then when he stays it becomes “wow” because no one can believe the stupidity. And now you’ll post back to me with some profanity, or other such nonsense. And yada yada yada…

Really junior try to add something that is relevant. I’m being serious. What’s the point of you being here? To flame everyone you disagree with? If that’s it you’re doing nothing to change minds or further your point. And only looking like the little boy you are.

Now respond with something of substance about the topic at hand. Really try!

[/quote]

flame everyone you disagree with? you do the exact same thing, but instead of actually give everyone a real “fuck you”, it a metaphorical fuck you. same agression, different diction. whats the difference between calling some one junior or little boy as opposed to little prick, or little douschbag. [/quote]

Can we stop replying to this guy, please?

It’s really easy, you just don’t type anything.

Pittbulll is the only poster I have or have ever put on ignore. I’m trying real hard to allow him to retain that distinction, but the competition is fierce right now. Fierce.

784

[quote]forlife wrote:
both are legally protected from discrimination.[/quote]

Yes, but you don’t see white people trying to legally protect their right to be God fearing, tractor riding, beer sipping, country fried steak eating, porch sitting white folks.

You can be gay, and I agree that you shouldn’t be discriminated against. However, you are not being discriminated against. Your actions are being discriminated against. Big difference.

Acting on homosexual tendencies is disordered. That which is disordered in nature should be discriminated against.

The nature of a marital embrace is within a marriage (man and wife) with a procreative and unitive aspect. Separating those two or removing it from marriage is a disordered act against nature and should be discriminated against.

Even if one had racial tendencies to act upon, none of which I know to be disordered.

785

[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:
both criminality and sexuality[/quote]

Concupiscence and sexuality are both not a choice. Both are an affliction, one comes from the other. However, we do have choice in whether we act when it comes to both.[/quote]

here we are on different pages, and seeing as neither of us are going to convince the other to alter their beliefs on what homosexuality i think that argument has ran its course
[/quote]

What is your belief? Do you think sexuality is a choice?

786

[quote]orion wrote:
I have to say that it is highly entertaining to see a proud Jew and someone who gets his anti gay talking points from, um, websites that are frequented by people that are extraordinairily proud of their, lets say, Caucasian heritage, arguing in unison.

I am positively enthralled.

[/quote]

Yes, we understand “Heil, mein Führer!”, Herrenvolk, and Nordicism. We get it.

787

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I have to say that it is highly entertaining to see a proud Jew and someone who gets his anti gay talking points from, um, websites that are frequented by people that are extraordinairily proud of their, lets say, Caucasian heritage, arguing in unison.

I am positively enthralled.

[/quote]

Yes, we understand “Heil, mein FÃ?¼hrer!”, Herrenvolk, and Nordicism. We get it.[/quote]

Ah, you know me so well.

I am all about white power, in fact, I quote their sites all the time.

788

Also, you are just jelaous that homophobia is far more uniting than a certain church.

789

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
both are legally protected from discrimination.[/quote]

Yes, but you don’t see white people trying to legally protect their right to be God fearing, tractor riding, beer sipping, country fried steak eating, porch sitting white folks.

You can be gay, and I agree that you shouldn’t be discriminated against. However, you are not being discriminated against. Your actions are being discriminated against. Big difference.

Acting on homosexual tendencies is disordered. That which is disordered in nature should be discriminated against.

The nature of a marital embrace is within a marriage (man and wife) with a procreative and unitive aspect. Separating those two or removing it from marriage is a disordered act against nature and should be discriminated against.

Even if one had racial tendencies to act upon, none of which I know to be disordered.[/quote]

How would you feel if you lived in a country where Islam was the official religion, and Catholicism was banned as heretical and contrary to the will of Allah? You could argue that you are free to worship as you wish, and that nobody is harmed by your religion, yet the state would refuse to grant you equal rights because the state believed Islam was the one true religion. How would you feel?

790

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:
im arguing specifically on this vendetta against me. this argument, gay rights, marriage, morality, whatever you wanna call it seems pointless to argue, its a moral issue that everyone is trying to back up with facts. we all know that you can find facts and statistics to support just about any argument any of us can thing of, not all of it is reliable, but whose to say which of the facts and statistics decisively mean anything? it appears many of the issues people argue tirelessly about will never come to an end because they are moral issues that will always have two people with opposing values and/or morals. there are good and bad people on both sides of the debate. but thats not what im arguing here, my main point was what i stated above, same agression different diction [/quote]

Bingo. You may be 19, but you’ve realized a critical truth that continues to elude many of the posters here that are older and should know better. Everyone is subject to confirmatory bias, but few are honest enough to admit it.

In the end, this is a moral debate, and no amount of logic or evidence will make any difference. That is why you never see people change their views on these issues.[/quote]

Well that’s certainly one way to “win” the argument, isn’t it?

Could the same be said about abortion? Embryonic stem cell research? While we’re at it how about eugenics? Maybe we should just let everyone do whatever the fuck they feel like doing because it’s all just one big moral issue anyway, facts be damned.

That’s what you two are saying here. I just want everyone to be very, very clear on this. Especially that it’s you saying it, forlife. You of all people should know better.

791

lol. I thought even on PWI this thread would die by now.

Did Zeb really post something from stormfront? If so, could someone highlight it w/ a link? (I like the crazy PWI… lol).

792

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:
im arguing specifically on this vendetta against me. this argument, gay rights, marriage, morality, whatever you wanna call it seems pointless to argue, its a moral issue that everyone is trying to back up with facts. we all know that you can find facts and statistics to support just about any argument any of us can thing of, not all of it is reliable, but whose to say which of the facts and statistics decisively mean anything? it appears many of the issues people argue tirelessly about will never come to an end because they are moral issues that will always have two people with opposing values and/or morals. there are good and bad people on both sides of the debate. but thats not what im arguing here, my main point was what i stated above, same agression different diction [/quote]

Bingo. You may be 19, but you’ve realized a critical truth that continues to elude many of the posters here that are older and should know better. Everyone is subject to confirmatory bias, but few are honest enough to admit it.

In the end, this is a moral debate, and no amount of logic or evidence will make any difference. That is why you never see people change their views on these issues.[/quote]

Well that’s certainly one way to “win” the argument, isn’t it?

Could the same be said about abortion? Embryonic stem cell research? While we’re at it how about eugenics? Maybe we should just let everyone do whatever the fuck they feel like doing because it’s all just one big moral issue anyway, facts be damned.

That’s what you two are saying here. I just want everyone to be very, very clear on this. Especially that it’s you saying it, forlife. You of all people should know better.
[/quote]

My point is that in these Internet discussions, nobody is going to “win” the argument. Have you ever, even once, seen someone change their mind on an issue like gay rights due to anything posted in this forum?

I’ve posted practically an entire book of statistics and policy statements from every major health organization in the past, and it didn’t make a bit of difference. Nobody is going to start supporting gay rights, and those in favor of gay rights aren’t going to start opposing them, because your “facts” or my “facts” are just that compelling.

You may or may not admit it, but confirmatory bias exists for you, just like it does for me and for everyone else posting here. Few are honest and humble enough to recognize it in themselves.

That said, it’s still important for people to express their views, if for no other reason than to illustrate both sides of the argument. But “winning” the argument? Not gonna happen.

793

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
lol. I thought even on PWI this thread would die by now.

Did Zeb really post something from stormfront? If so, could someone highlight it w/ a link? (I like the crazy PWI… lol). [/quote]

What did I post from stormfront? And what did I post from stormfront that is actually untrue? And how come YOU have not questioned the amount of information that I’ve posted from the CDC (or other high quality sites) which highlight negative homosexual behavior? Must be you can’t refute the information, nor cast negative doubts about the source.

Apparently now you see an opportunity here for ridicule and you think you’re going to capitalize on it?

Once again, I want YOU to point out everything that is false regarding the statistics that I’ve posted on homosexuality, regardless of the site. If you can’t do that then that means that I’ve posted the truth and the only thing that YOU can do is try to ridicule only one source of information. Very weak tactic my friend, very weak. But then that’s pretty much all the left has when it comes to all things homosexual.

By the way, a few years back I posted some information from NARTH and forlife had a fit because that is more or less a religious site. And my retort was “simply point out what is false in my quote.” He never could do that, but he screamed like the little girl that he is because of the source of that information, which turned out to be true.

So give that information a really good read. I await your response and hope that you are able to show me how bad the information is. But…I bet you can’t do it!

794

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:
im arguing specifically on this vendetta against me. this argument, gay rights, marriage, morality, whatever you wanna call it seems pointless to argue, its a moral issue that everyone is trying to back up with facts. we all know that you can find facts and statistics to support just about any argument any of us can thing of, not all of it is reliable, but whose to say which of the facts and statistics decisively mean anything? it appears many of the issues people argue tirelessly about will never come to an end because they are moral issues that will always have two people with opposing values and/or morals. there are good and bad people on both sides of the debate. but thats not what im arguing here, my main point was what i stated above, same agression different diction [/quote]

Bingo. You may be 19, but you’ve realized a critical truth that continues to elude many of the posters here that are older and should know better. Everyone is subject to confirmatory bias, but few are honest enough to admit it.

In the end, this is a moral debate, and no amount of logic or evidence will make any difference. That is why you never see people change their views on these issues.[/quote]

Well that’s certainly one way to “win” the argument, isn’t it?

Could the same be said about abortion? Embryonic stem cell research? While we’re at it how about eugenics? Maybe we should just let everyone do whatever the fuck they feel like doing because it’s all just one big moral issue anyway, facts be damned.

That’s what you two are saying here. I just want everyone to be very, very clear on this. Especially that it’s you saying it, forlife. You of all people should know better.
[/quote]

My point is that in these Internet discussions, nobody is going to “win” the argument. Have you ever, even once, seen someone change their mind on an issue like gay rights due to anything posted in this forum?

I’ve posted practically an entire book of statistics and policy statements from every major health organization in the past, and it didn’t make a bit of difference. Nobody is going to start supporting gay rights, and those in favor of gay rights aren’t going to start opposing them, because your “facts” or my “facts” are just that compelling.

You may or may not admit it, but confirmatory bias exists for you, just like it does for me and for everyone else posting here. Few are honest and humble enough to recognize it in themselves.

That said, it’s still important for people to express their views, if for no other reason than to illustrate both sides of the argument. But “winning” the argument? Not gonna happen.
[/quote]

Either there is a point to this or there isn’t. I happen to think there is and I also happen to believe that facts DO matter. A lot. The only way to get around this is to get all relativistic and starting saying “What is truth?” and “What are facts?” in which case I’m of the opinion you’re better off with a dime bag of pot and a blue-ray anniversary edition of the The Wall than you are posting here.

I do agree with you that those of us doing the actual work of arguing are almost certainly (but not always) not going to have their minds moved one iota from their current stance. However, take a look at the left number on the “Activity” column. You’ll see the number is usually roughly ten times greater than the number on the right. “Activity” is the appropriate word for that column, because in either set of numbers, that’s where all the action is. There are stubborn old mules like us that aren’t going to budge with a cartload of carrots before us and a handful of switches behind. But there are a LOT of others out there that are still looking. They are still learning and forming their opinions. And what we do here, it does matter.

At least I hope so. I could be watching Japanese variety programs right now. And if you know anything at all about Japanese TV, you’ll know that they have no entertainment equal.

None.

795

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:
both criminality and sexuality[/quote]

Concupiscence and sexuality are both not a choice. Both are an affliction, one comes from the other. However, we do have choice in whether we act when it comes to both.[/quote]

here we are on different pages, and seeing as neither of us are going to convince the other to alter their beliefs on what homosexuality i think that argument has ran its course
[/quote]

What is your belief? Do you think sexuality is a choice?[/quote]

no i dont believe it is

796

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:
im arguing specifically on this vendetta against me. this argument, gay rights, marriage, morality, whatever you wanna call it seems pointless to argue, its a moral issue that everyone is trying to back up with facts. we all know that you can find facts and statistics to support just about any argument any of us can thing of, not all of it is reliable, but whose to say which of the facts and statistics decisively mean anything? it appears many of the issues people argue tirelessly about will never come to an end because they are moral issues that will always have two people with opposing values and/or morals. there are good and bad people on both sides of the debate. but thats not what im arguing here, my main point was what i stated above, same agression different diction [/quote]

Bingo. You may be 19, but you’ve realized a critical truth that continues to elude many of the posters here that are older and should know better. Everyone is subject to confirmatory bias, but few are honest enough to admit it.

In the end, this is a moral debate, and no amount of logic or evidence will make any difference. That is why you never see people change their views on these issues.[/quote]

Well that’s certainly one way to “win” the argument, isn’t it?

Could the same be said about abortion? Embryonic stem cell research? While we’re at it how about eugenics? Maybe we should just let everyone do whatever the fuck they feel like doing because it’s all just one big moral issue anyway, facts be damned.

That’s what you two are saying here. I just want everyone to be very, very clear on this. Especially that it’s you saying it, forlife. You of all people should know better.
[/quote

i’d be very happy if we let be do what they want, to an extent, some one is gonna take that outta context for sure. my belief is to each his own, but thats exactly what i mean, its a belief, a personal belief. how the fuck is anyone supposed to win anything here? there’s no winning in this

797

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:
im arguing specifically on this vendetta against me. this argument, gay rights, marriage, morality, whatever you wanna call it seems pointless to argue, its a moral issue that everyone is trying to back up with facts. we all know that you can find facts and statistics to support just about any argument any of us can thing of, not all of it is reliable, but whose to say which of the facts and statistics decisively mean anything? it appears many of the issues people argue tirelessly about will never come to an end because they are moral issues that will always have two people with opposing values and/or morals. there are good and bad people on both sides of the debate. but thats not what im arguing here, my main point was what i stated above, same agression different diction [/quote]

Bingo. You may be 19, but you’ve realized a critical truth that continues to elude many of the posters here that are older and should know better. Everyone is subject to confirmatory bias, but few are honest enough to admit it.

In the end, this is a moral debate, and no amount of logic or evidence will make any difference. That is why you never see people change their views on these issues.[/quote]

Well that’s certainly one way to “win” the argument, isn’t it?

Could the same be said about abortion? Embryonic stem cell research? While we’re at it how about eugenics? Maybe we should just let everyone do whatever the fuck they feel like doing because it’s all just one big moral issue anyway, facts be damned.

That’s what you two are saying here. I just want everyone to be very, very clear on this. Especially that it’s you saying it, forlife. You of all people should know better.
[/quote]

My point is that in these Internet discussions, nobody is going to “win” the argument. Have you ever, even once, seen someone change their mind on an issue like gay rights due to anything posted in this forum?

I’ve posted practically an entire book of statistics and policy statements from every major health organization in the past, and it didn’t make a bit of difference. Nobody is going to start supporting gay rights, and those in favor of gay rights aren’t going to start opposing them, because your “facts” or my “facts” are just that compelling.

You may or may not admit it, but confirmatory bias exists for you, just like it does for me and for everyone else posting here. Few are honest and humble enough to recognize it in themselves.

That said, it’s still important for people to express their views, if for no other reason than to illustrate both sides of the argument. But “winning” the argument? Not gonna happen.
[/quote]

Either there is a point to this or there isn’t. I happen to think there is and I also happen to believe that facts DO matter. A lot. The only way to get around this is to get all relativistic and starting saying “What is truth?” and “What are facts?” in which case I’m of the opinion you’re better off with a dime bag of pot and a blue-ray anniversary edition of the The Wall than you are posting here.

I do agree with you that those of us doing the actual work of arguing are almost certainly (but not always) not going to have their minds moved one iota from their current stance. However, take a look at the left number on the “Activity” column. You’ll see the number is usually roughly ten times greater than the number on the right. “Activity” is the appropriate word for that column, because in either set of numbers, that’s where all the action is. There are stubborn old mules like us that aren’t going to budge with a cartload of carrots before us and a handful of switches behind. But there are a LOT of others out there that are still looking. They are still learning and forming their opinions. And what we do here, it does matter.

At least I hope so. I could be watching Japanese variety programs right now. And if you know anything at all about Japanese TV, you’ll know that they have no entertainment equal.

None. [/quote]

facts do matter, but im sure you would agree that people can bend facts to their will. you can find factual support on the internet for just about any argument out there. thats not say say that the facts presented on here are BS, but who’s to say which facts are meaningful and which aren’t?many times studies are done with much bias, faulty test samples, and many other factors that play role. its beyond me at least to wade through the BS and identify the really telling statistics. i agree about japanese television however

798

[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:
im arguing specifically on this vendetta against me. this argument, gay rights, marriage, morality, whatever you wanna call it seems pointless to argue, its a moral issue that everyone is trying to back up with facts. we all know that you can find facts and statistics to support just about any argument any of us can thing of, not all of it is reliable, but whose to say which of the facts and statistics decisively mean anything? it appears many of the issues people argue tirelessly about will never come to an end because they are moral issues that will always have two people with opposing values and/or morals. there are good and bad people on both sides of the debate. but thats not what im arguing here, my main point was what i stated above, same agression different diction [/quote]

Bingo. You may be 19, but you’ve realized a critical truth that continues to elude many of the posters here that are older and should know better. Everyone is subject to confirmatory bias, but few are honest enough to admit it.

In the end, this is a moral debate, and no amount of logic or evidence will make any difference. That is why you never see people change their views on these issues.[/quote]

Well that’s certainly one way to “win” the argument, isn’t it?

Could the same be said about abortion? Embryonic stem cell research? While we’re at it how about eugenics? Maybe we should just let everyone do whatever the fuck they feel like doing because it’s all just one big moral issue anyway, facts be damned.

That’s what you two are saying here. I just want everyone to be very, very clear on this. Especially that it’s you saying it, forlife. You of all people should know better.
[/quote]

My point is that in these Internet discussions, nobody is going to “win” the argument. Have you ever, even once, seen someone change their mind on an issue like gay rights due to anything posted in this forum?

I’ve posted practically an entire book of statistics and policy statements from every major health organization in the past, and it didn’t make a bit of difference. Nobody is going to start supporting gay rights, and those in favor of gay rights aren’t going to start opposing them, because your “facts” or my “facts” are just that compelling.

You may or may not admit it, but confirmatory bias exists for you, just like it does for me and for everyone else posting here. Few are honest and humble enough to recognize it in themselves.

That said, it’s still important for people to express their views, if for no other reason than to illustrate both sides of the argument. But “winning” the argument? Not gonna happen.
[/quote]

Either there is a point to this or there isn’t. I happen to think there is and I also happen to believe that facts DO matter. A lot. The only way to get around this is to get all relativistic and starting saying “What is truth?” and “What are facts?” in which case I’m of the opinion you’re better off with a dime bag of pot and a blue-ray anniversary edition of the The Wall than you are posting here.

I do agree with you that those of us doing the actual work of arguing are almost certainly (but not always) not going to have their minds moved one iota from their current stance. However, take a look at the left number on the “Activity” column. You’ll see the number is usually roughly ten times greater than the number on the right. “Activity” is the appropriate word for that column, because in either set of numbers, that’s where all the action is. There are stubborn old mules like us that aren’t going to budge with a cartload of carrots before us and a handful of switches behind. But there are a LOT of others out there that are still looking. They are still learning and forming their opinions. And what we do here, it does matter.

At least I hope so. I could be watching Japanese variety programs right now. And if you know anything at all about Japanese TV, you’ll know that they have no entertainment equal.

None. [/quote]

facts do matter, but im sure you would agree that people can bend facts to their will. you can find factual support on the internet for just about any argument out there. thats not say say that the facts presented on here are BS, but who’s to say which facts are meaningful and which aren’t?many times studies are done with much bias, faulty test samples, and many other factors that play role. its beyond me at least to wade through the BS and identify the really telling statistics. i agree about japanese television however[/quote]

No. Facts are facts. They either are or they aren’t. What you are talking about is rhetoric. Which calls for discernment. Which should not be too much to ask.

If facts are not, then this entire forum, and indeed our lives, are an exercise in futility.

799

[quote]orion wrote:
Also, you are just jelaous that homophobia is far more uniting than a certain church.

[/quote]

I am sure you’re jealous of your forefathers getting to serve directly under the Fuhrer.

800

[quote]forlife wrote:
How would you feel if you lived in a country where Islam was the official religion, and Catholicism was banned as heretical and contrary to the will of Allah? You could argue that you are free to worship as you wish, and that nobody is harmed by your religion, yet the state would refuse to grant you equal rights because the state believed Islam was the one true religion. How would you feel?[/quote]

How I feel doesn’t matter. What matters is that we should do good and avoid evil.

801

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

What would you do if people kept quoting stereotypes and “statistics” that are contradicted by your personal experience, and by the personal experience of the majority of your friends and family?[/quote]

Anecdotal evidence doesn’t not rebut the volumes of evidence from the myriad of high quality sources (like the CDC) which I’ve presented.

You want a medal for four stinking years? Big deal. The statistics show that the average homosexual couple lasts just less than two years. Once again anecdotal evidence means nothing in this case. We have to look at the broad picture.

How fortunate for your kids that they get to go to this strange homosexual mans family reunion. I’m sure it will be a memory that they cherish for years. Those poor, poor kids.

No one ever said that every single homosexual is promiscuous. But, the fact is most are. Simple right?

Glad you moved away from that because MOST homosexual men are irresponsible as shown by the CDC statistics that I posted. If it were not for homosexual men there would be no AIDS problem in the US as 60% of all new HIV cases come from gay men. But, not any of your friends I know as they all live ideal lifestyles and are (cough) good citizens and go on picnics and stuff…got it.

They’re not stereotypes if they are true. And in this case the facts that I posted are absolutely TRUE. So save the stereotype defense.

And I can turn up research which demonstrates that fully 33% of all homosexual men who try reparative therapy go on to live normal health lives as heterosexual men!

Your act is old forlife.[/quote]

Do you even KNOW any gay people? In real life? You’ve dealt with so many that you can make these sweeping general comments about an entire population? All you have are statistics; statistics skewed to promote your arguments. Statistics are based on surveys of a few people in a population of several million. Screw statistics. They should always be taken with a grain of salt.

802

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Also, you are just jelaous that homophobia is far more uniting than a certain church.

[/quote]

I am sure you’re jealous of your forefathers getting to serve directly under the Fuhrer. [/quote]

They were not that high in the chain of command, but given that you have so embarrasingly little to work with to link me to ze evil nazis, I will give you a B- .

edited