[quote]kamui wrote:
It’s called “Pacte Civil de Solidarité” (PACS)
“Civil Pact of Solidarity” in english, i presume. [/quote]
Thank you, as you can see, I would have spent some time in searching the right words, I read french ok, but it is mainly a passive language. Maybe I should hang out on french message boards.
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Apparently there is plenty of harm in acting on that impulse according the the CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/FastFacts-MSM-FINAL508COMP.pdf
Wow, about 20% of all gay men are infected with the HIV virus! I bet you won’t see that statistic talked about by the Main Stream Liberal Media.
Not to mention higher rates of virtually every known sexually transmitted disease from STD’s to anal cancer. And then there’s the high incidence of emotional problems, from anxiety and depression to suicide. And these mental problems have nothing to do with acceptance. In the Netherlands where gay marriage has been legal for 10 years and homosexuality is no big deal the rates of suicide among homosexuals is still high and did not change after gay marriage was introduced.
[/quote]
Seems very much like gay marriage or union or whatever it is called wont have any correlation whatsoever with statistical gay health and mental problems, then. I understand the reasons why someone sees marriage as special, though it is just the couple who make it special if it ever is, according my opinion. The sentiments shown here conserning the specialness of marriage seem to be quite ceneral both in Europe and US, though. Yes, in Europe too.
Just out of curiosity, do you see any way in which a gay couple wanting to be monogamous, a minority in a minority, could protect their union in the legal aspects? [/quote]
No, and furthermore actual monogamy, like the kind you see in healthy long standing heterosexual relationships is practically non existent in the gay community.
Here are the dirty details that people like forlife don’t want you or anyone else to know:
[quote]Far higher rates of promiscuity are observed even within â??committedâ?? gay relationships than in heterosexual marriage: In Holland, male homosexual relationships last, on average, 1.5 years, and gay men have an average of eight partners a year outside of their supposedly â??committedâ?? relationships. (Xiridou M, et al. The contribution of steady and casual partnerships to the incidence of HIV infection among homosexual men in Amsterdam . AIDS. 2003; 17: 1029-38.) Gay men have sex with someone other than their primary partner in 66% of relationships within the first year, rising to 90% of relationships after five years . (Harry J. Gay Couples. New York . 1984)
In an online survey among nearly 8,000 homosexuals, 71% of same-sex relationships lasted less than eight years. Only 9% of all same-sex relationships lasted longer than 16 years. (2003-2004 Gay & Lesbian Consumer Online Census; www.glcensus.org)
The high rates of promiscuity are not surprising: Gay authors admit that â??gay liberation was founded â?¦ on a sexual brotherhood of promiscuity.â?? (Rotello G. Sexual Ecology. New York 1998)[/quote]
And we are now going to give homosexuals (in a few states) the right to marry? What a horrible idea!
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
Oh man you are cruel, swedes?[/quote]
Quite: - YouTube
[/quote]
Thank you for the video, Chris, much appreciated.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
Even if it were a choice, there is nothing inherently harmful or damaging about being gay.[/quote]
True, but there is something inherently harmful in homosexual sex, at least statistically.
Even when “corrected” to remove HIV from the picture, men who have engaged in male-male sex (regardless if they self-identify as gay or not and regardless if they practice “safe” sex or not) live an average of 23 years less than comparable men who have no engaged in such sex. When HIV is added back in, it becomes 27 years less than comparable men.*
To put that in perspective, 2 pack a day lifetime smokers shave off somewhere between 15 and 20 years from their lives.
In short, people want to ban smoking tobacco all the time, but it’s far less dangerous than gay sex.
How about lesbian sex? Or how about sex in a monogamous male marriage? There’s nothing inherently harmful about homosexuality, in my opinion. My partner and I are every bit as healthy as any straight couple.
I do believe rates of suicidal thoughts, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, anxiety, and depression are statistically high among gays. There’s a reason for that. Research has shown that gays who try to change their sexual orientation are at double the risk for these negative outcomes. Self-acceptance and acceptance by society would help greatly.
[quote]forlife wrote:
How about lesbian sex? Or how about sex in a monogamous male marriage? There’s nothing inherently harmful about homosexuality, in my opinion. My partner and I are every bit as healthy as any straight couple.
I do believe rates of suicidal thoughts, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, anxiety, and depression are statistically high among gays. There’s a reason for that. Research has shown that gays who try to change their sexual orientation are at double the risk for these negative outcomes. Self-acceptance and acceptance by society would help greatly.[/quote]
I would guess that every gay has had such a rough road just in learning to recognize themselves, that practically all have a low self-esteem to start with.
Not exactly about the same, but close enough:
This is closer. Low self esteem is bad for anybody. Great voice, isn’t it? Yeah, and emotional.
Good songs. The woman (in Self Esteem - the Offspring), for me, was the church.
[quote]forlife wrote:
How about lesbian sex?
[/quote]
How about Bob? Or the price of tea in China?
[quote]
Or how about sex in a monogamous male marriage? [/quote]
How about unicorns? Statistically, there is no such thing as monogamous male-male pairing. As noted above, the average male homosexual monogomous pairing lasts 1.8 years and each partner has 8 flings with other men per year.
[quote]
There’s nothing inherently harmful about homosexuality, in my opinion. My partner and I are every bit as healthy as any straight couple.[/quote]
Again, I agree, regarding the being homosexual. Celebate homosexuals have the same life exepectancies as other males.
But there is something, statistically, harmful about homosexual sodomy. You are closer to the biology, so you tell us why.
No, the studies are among people who engage in gay sodomy, regardless of desire to change or not change “orientation.”
[quote]
Research has shown that gays who try to change their sexual orientation are at double the risk for these negative outcomes. [/quote]
Really? Let’s see it.
[quote]
Self-acceptance and acceptance by society would help greatly.[/quote]
Maybe, unless engaging in homsexual sodomy is a symptom of self-hate, rebellion, and a form of slow suicide, just like other destructive behaviors.
Again, I am not “for” or “against” homosexual behavior by non-Jewish people. If you are non-Jewish, it’s up to you and yours.
Jewish people have a code of conduct that forbids this. You may or may not; that’s your thing.
(For the record, Israel, my country, marriage is a religious matter, governed by the religious authorities of the persons involved. Some are quite strict. Secular people can enter whatever contractual arrangement they want, including between people of the same sex.)
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
How about lesbian sex?
[/quote]
How about Bob? Or the price of tea in China?
[/quote]
Do you have any evidence suggesting lesbians are a on similarly dangerous path as their male counterparts? Statistically are there any negatives being a lesbian?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
a benefit is not a right.
“we the people” have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex.
Gays have this right too, exactly like you and me.
It’s just that they doesn’t want it. They want to modify the rules to their own benefit instead.
[/quote]
Okay…so gays have the right to marry people of the opposite sex. Great. How does that help them? They’re GAY. They don’t find the opposite sex sexually attractive. They want the right to marry the people they are sexually attracted to, which is their own sex. [/quote]
Come on, Grneyes, you must see the point by now. Why do you keep hitting the reset button like it’s the first time this has come up?
One more time: kamui is, as usual, correct. The reason they are afforded benefits based upon this right (to marry someone of the opposite sex), and not based upon the other one (SSM) is that the latter provides an invaluable procreative and stabilizing element to society that the former DOES NOT.
In order for SSM to warrant receiving equal benefits to hetero marriage soeone is going to have to demonstrate that there is a reasonably equivalent benefit to society provided by SSM. All those benefits that hetero married couples receive are a reward/incentive to encourage behavior we want to see MORE OF. We, as a society, don’t really give damn about homosexual marriage because the only group it benefits in any substantial way is homosexuals.
In order to put this into perspective, you need to look at the two relationships in the light of each one’s relative importance to society.
If somehow, overnight, every homosexual relationship on the planet suddenly ended, aside from perhaps an immediate decline in fashion and interior design standards 
the world would really not be affected much one way or the other. If the opposite occurred, and it was every hetero relationship that ceased, there would be no world to speak of in short time.
That’s why we take care of our hetero relationships so much. Because they are important. Damned important.
[/quote]
Okay, you don’t need a heterosexual relationship to keep life going. All you need is a one
night stand.
EDIT: Again, it’s not about benefiting society. It’s about giving homosexuals the same rights you and your wife have. What’s so wrong about that? What harm does it to you? I don’t care, particularly, if it’s called marriage or civil unions or a committed relationship, just allow them the exact same rights and benefits as heterosexual married couples. What harm does it do to you or society to allow that?
[quote]forlife wrote:
There’s nothing inherently harmful about homosexuality, in my opinion. My partner and I are every bit as healthy as any straight couple.[/quote]
Your opinion? Sorry forlife the facts say something quite the opposite (as I’ve posted).
I’ve already answered this as well. In the Netherlands where gay marriage has been around for 10 years and homosexuality is no big deal (meaning no one is trying to change) the depression, anxiety and suicide rates are just as high as they ever were!
Basically you have nothing other than your opinion as every single fact is against you!
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
EDIT: Again, it’s not about benefiting society. It’s about giving homosexuals the same rights you and your wife have. What’s so wrong about that? What harm does it to you?[/quote]
Does not help society
Homosexuals are basically NOT monogamous (check the stats I posted).
Homosexuals as a group drive up health costs as they are without question the sickest (physically and mentally) group in the nation.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
How about lesbian sex?
[/quote]
How about Bob? Or the price of tea in China?
[quote]
Or how about sex in a monogamous male marriage? [/quote]
How about unicorns? Statistically, there is no such thing as monogamous male-male pairing. As noted above, the average male homosexual monogomous pairing lasts 1.8 years and each partner has 8 flings with other men per year.
[quote]
There’s nothing inherently harmful about homosexuality, in my opinion. My partner and I are every bit as healthy as any straight couple.[/quote]
Again, I agree, regarding the being homosexual. Celebate homosexuals have the same life exepectancies as other males.
But there is something, statistically, harmful about homosexual sodomy. You are closer to the biology, so you tell us why.
No, the studies are among people who engage in gay sodomy, regardless of desire to change or not change “orientation.”
[quote]
Research has shown that gays who try to change their sexual orientation are at double the risk for these negative outcomes. [/quote]
Really? Let’s see it.
[quote]
Self-acceptance and acceptance by society would help greatly.[/quote]
Maybe, unless engaging in homsexual sodomy is a symptom of self-hate, rebellion, and a form of slow suicide, just like other destructive behaviors.
Again, I am not “for” or “against” homosexual behavior by non-Jewish people. If you are non-Jewish, it’s up to you and yours.
Jewish people have a code of conduct that forbids this. You may or may not; that’s your thing.
(For the record, Israel, my country, marriage is a religious matter, governed by the religious authorities of the persons involved. Some are quite strict. Secular people can enter whatever contractual arrangement they want, including between people of the same sex.)[/quote]
I brought up lesbians because they are homosexuals too.
What would you do if people kept quoting stereotypes and “statistics” that are contradicted by your personal experience, and by the personal experience of the majority of your friends and family? I keep hearing how it’s statistically impossible for my partner and me to be monogamous, yet here we are 100% monogamous, and celebrating our 4 year anniversary next month. My lesbian sister has been in a long term monogamous relationship. Same with my partner’s cousin. We have several friends who also are in long term monogamous relationships, many with children. We don’t do drugs, we drink responsibly, we have successful careers, we own homes, we pay taxes, and we aren’t criminals (well, I did get a speeding ticket the other day, but that’s my only crime). This weekend, my partner and I are taking my kids to his family reunion. We are going water skiing, jet skiing, and having a big potluck dinner like we do every year. His family accepts me, just like my family accepts him.
How would you feel if, despite all of this, people kept calling you a liar and insisting that your life and the lives of every gay couple close to you are “statistically impossible”?
I’m not saying all gay men are sexually responsible, or even want to be in long term monogamous relationships. I’m just saying the stereotypes don’t reflect my life, or the lives of my gay family and friends.
I can dig up the research on reparative therapy doubling the risk of suicidal thoughts, anxiety, depression, drug abuse and alcohol abuse if you’re genuinely interested. I’ve posted this research in the past, but it never seems to make any difference.
[quote]forlife wrote:
What would you do if people kept quoting stereotypes and “statistics” that are contradicted by your personal experience, and by the personal experience of the majority of your friends and family?[/quote]
Anecdotal evidence doesn’t not rebut the volumes of evidence from the myriad of high quality sources (like the CDC) which I’ve presented.
You want a medal for four stinking years? Big deal. The statistics show that the average homosexual couple lasts just less than two years. Once again anecdotal evidence means nothing in this case. We have to look at the broad picture.
How fortunate for your kids that they get to go to this strange homosexual mans family reunion. I’m sure it will be a memory that they cherish for years. Those poor, poor kids.
No one ever said that every single homosexual is promiscuous. But, the fact is most are. Simple right?
Glad you moved away from that because MOST homosexual men are irresponsible as shown by the CDC statistics that I posted. If it were not for homosexual men there would be no AIDS problem in the US as 60% of all new HIV cases come from gay men. But, not any of your friends I know as they all live ideal lifestyles and are (cough) good citizens and go on picnics and stuff…got it.
They’re not stereotypes if they are true. And in this case the facts that I posted are absolutely TRUE. So save the stereotype defense.
And I can turn up research which demonstrates that fully 33% of all homosexual men who try reparative therapy go on to live normal health lives as heterosexual men!
Your act is old forlife.
ZEB your stepping over the line, leave the kids out of it
[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:
ZEB your stepping over the line, leave the kids out of it[/quote]
I toyed with the idea of ignoring your post. Since at the age of 19 you’re barely out of childhood yourself. But as a service to you I’ll explain once again how things work around here. If someone mentions their children they are in fact fair game. Furthermore, I did not berate the children, nor would that be acceptable. However, when forlife bragged about taking them to some sort of gathering with his male lover well that’s just a point of contention that is worthy of mention. And an issue that strikes at the very heart of the values debate that we are having.
On a final note, if you would read more, at least in the beginning, and post less you would not have made such a faux paux. This being your second one in almost as many days I would expect that for your own good you would heed my advice. But knowing how teenagers sometimes react to correction well I don’t have high hopes. But perhaps you’ll surprise me.
[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:
ZEB your stepping over the line, leave the kids out of it[/quote]
I appreciate the support, but in this case it isn’t needed. Zeb is a known troll, with a long history of personal attacks on gays, liberals, people under 30, and pretty much anyone that disagrees with him. I never bother to even reply to him any more.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
How about lesbian sex?
[/quote]
How about Bob? Or the price of tea in China?
[/quote]
Do you have any evidence suggesting lesbians are a on similarly dangerous path as their male counterparts? Statistically are there any negatives being a lesbian? [/quote]
The figures for lesbians are not nearly as developed for male homosexuals. Females who engage exclusively in homosexual sex do have markedly higher suicides rates (30% attempt at some point) and markedly higher drug and alcohol use that straight females.
How this translates to death rates — I am not sure, in that the numbers I can get to today are co-mingled.
I suspect (without evidence) they have a higher death rate than straight females, but the rate is not as pronounced as males who engage in homsexual sodomy because: (1) lesbians are not a promiscuous as males who engage in homosexual sodomy and (2) because the nature of the sex is not typically as dangerous, as the blood-skin barrier is typically not broken and there are less “fluids” involved.
Interestingly, I learned the number one reason given by both male and female youths for suicide attempts is that they begin to desire persons of the opposite sex, but they have been told by older homosexuals (and so believe) there is “no way to leave” the homosexual lifestyle, and so they despair.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:
ZEB your stepping over the line, leave the kids out of it[/quote]
I toyed with the idea of ignoring your post. Since at the age of 19 you’re barely out of childhood yourself. But as a service to you I’ll explain once again how things work around here. If someone mentions their children they are in fact fair game. Furthermore, I did not berate the children, nor would that be acceptable. However, when forlife bragged about taking them to some sort of gathering with his male lover well that’s just a point of contention that is worthy of mention. And an issue that strikes at the very heart of the values debate that we are having.
On a final note, if you would read more, at least in the beginning, and post less you would not have made such a faux paux. This being your second one in almost as many days I would expect that for your own good you would heed my advice. But knowing how teenagers sometimes react to correction well I don’t have high hopes. But perhaps you’ll surprise me.[/quote]
naw im afraid ill have to probabaly disappoint you probably more than once douschbag, i think for “your own good” as you put it mister bad ass sir, you might wanna keep your obnoxious opinions to yourself
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]xfactor3236 wrote:
ZEB your stepping over the line, leave the kids out of it[/quote]
I appreciate the support, but in this case it isn’t needed. Zeb is a known troll, with a long history of personal attacks on gays, liberals, people under 30, and pretty much anyone that disagrees with him. I never bother to even reply to him any more.[/quote]
That’s why one of the most respected posters on this board, TB, calls you a liar. As for me, I’ve debated many topics on this board for many years at a level which you, so far, have been unable to reach. One of your many problems, at least the one that causes you to lie and misrepresent the facts is your lust for homosexuality to be supported by the society and the masses. You cry out for acceptance with virtually every post. In the end you’re just pathetic.