Any Christian T-men here?

Off Topic
61

Agathos, while I understand / appreciate your conviction and beliefs, I do not appreciate your implying that I will give in to sex simply because I masturbate. I have avoided sex, including oral, for 22 years, and I WILL continue to do so until I am married. And I don’t appreciate your telling me I am looking for minimums - I am not - I am not one of those “anything but sex is OK” people. I tried to go down that road in my younger days when my faith was weak but thankfully snapped out of it.

The only other thing I will say on this matter is that to me, there is a difference between lust and sex drive. Sex drive is healthy and normal. Lust is truthfully in your heart searching for / desiring sex and is sinful.

Other than that “tidbit” I will say live and let live :). I was not trying to stoke an argument - I was merely trying to explain my point of view better.

62

Ahhh, JPFitness, swiss ball king!?

Y’know, when I first started posting on this topic of masterbation, I really hesitated, as very few will face the topic, even Christians. But the main hesitation was because I knew and expected all the idiotic responses I would get, and didn’t want to deal with stupid questions, but I was surprised when they didn’t show up.

No, “What’s wrong with you” or “you’re lying” or “don’t you have any T?”

Unfortunately however, you had to pose the questions (nevermind that I was really only discussing w fellow Christians, as I understand as hard a truth as it is for them, the topic is laughable to non-christians) so I’ll go ahead and explain.

First. What makes you think that I won’t enjoy sex when married? Did I ever say that sex/mast./thoughts, inside of a marraige was wrong? No, dull witted JP just assumed that didn’t he? Once I’m married anything goes, so long as it invovles only my wife.

Second. Do I have any Testosterone… well JP, I actually have extremely hight test levels, which unfortunately carries along a lot of good and bad side effects, acne and hairloss go hand and hand with it being IMPOSSIBLE for me to gain FAT and being able to bulk really quickly. Yes, I work out, yes I read TMag, yes, I am a TMan.

You see, JP, I used to think exaclty like you, and every other guy. Getting to where I am was a long and difficult journey, filled with doubt. In the end I also know that very few stand where I do, in total control of their bodies, and living their life first and foremost for their Lord and Savior.

What about this JP? What if I went ahead and told you that I turned from my religious beleifs for a period of several years, and that during that time I can’t even count the faceless nameless women I was with, I was 20 and living large as a PM in DFW, going to big parties, etc. having affairs with 36 yr. old secretaries, etc. Would that make me a TMan in your eyes JP? I also had a 1yr. relationship w a woman I dearly loved and who I was faithfull to that included constant sex. Does that make me a TMan JP?

But in the end none of that filled me, all of that, 85K yr. job, trophy girl, etc. can be taken away. But my faith can’t. For the past several years I have been persuing my faith wholehartedly, or hardcore as we TMen say, and I have acheived a calm, peace, and happiness that was never even immaginable with money and girls, even though I was far from riches or fame, I learned the lesson. Doing that meant not being a half-way Christian, turning away from a lot of things that I used to live for.

All the excuses seen in this thread were excuses I used previously. I look at it like this, if I’m going to live by faith then I’m going to do it like I’m supposed to.

Anyway, beleive it or not there’s no time bomb, only peace and calm and wisdom and enjoyment and no stress or worries. I don’t expect you to beleive that though JP, because I didn’t either… it took steps…

and the next step for a Christian who has decided that they want a sexually pure life is to realize what that really means, that’s what I am trying to get across to Snipe and others.

63

Agathos, also check out this article: http://www.youthspecialties.com/articles/topics/sexuality/masturbation.php

What do you think of its arguments?

64

Oh yeah and JP…

thanks man for all the sarcastic jokes, that was really cool. Really, no one else would think of that.

65

Snipe, I’ve actually read that, when I was going through all this I did lots and lots of research and read lots and lots of articles, some even more convincing than the one you just posted, some agruing the other way, etc.

Look, I made some suggestions for you, maybe check out that book alright, in the end though, I’m not responsible for you only me. You have to be honest with yourself and your convictions. I was just offering some suggestions/thoughts for you at the cost of all the flaming I knew I’d get by bringing it up. Have an open mind and heart.

66

Agathos: no problem man… I wasn’t trying to flame you at all. Its just that that one post you made had a few elements of a personal attack in it that I didn’t appreciate - but I appreciate your opinions/ideas 100%.

67

Agathos, you imply a lot. First, you imply that I am somehow “lost”… That is a typical presumptuous postition taken by many fundamentalilists that frankly makes me want to hurl. I too am quite content with my life, masturbation and all. I don’t feel like there is some big guilt hanging over me, or that I am somehow dirty or unpure. Maybe you are projecting a bit. I don’t go out seducing cadres of secretaries because I am a happily married man. I don’t define a T-Man as a cad who objectifies women and has absolutely no class. I am also spiritually secure, so I don’t need your brand of religion to fill any void in my life. Second, you imply that you are somehow some kind of sage meditating at the peak of a mountain, waiting for the waves of pilgrims to approach you so you can dole out witty and wise advice to them… Give me a break. If I didn’t think you were a time bomb before I am all too certain now.

68

Christian T-Man here, and I would like to thank all who posted on this thread. Many posts were very thought provoking. But I would like to say something to the “doubting Thomas’s” out there. Science cannot prove life after death. But faith can. Your beliefs are just that beliefs. Either you believe in them or you do not. It’s your choice. God bless you all.

69

JP, all you did just then was take all of my words and totally twist them around and blow them out of proportion… Check out the conversation I had with DanC over in another thread, he seemed a totle non-beleiver but he had a lot of really good points and really made me think.

You haven’t had one intelligent thing to add to this conversation, just attacks, stupid assumptions and implications, a whole lot of nothing. Nothing that you accused me of is even remotely accurate.

Hopefully attacking a 22 yr. old guy who was conversing in a topic thread about his beleifs has made you feel better.

70

JPfitness,

Do you think the Dali Lama is a ticking time-bomb waiting to explode?

71

Agathos, I am only pointing out that your belief that masturbation is filthy and immoral is possibly out of line and even unhealthy, mentally and physically. It is not meant as an attack. Frankly I have seen your type a million times, having lived a lot longer than you so far, and my intuition has correctly steered me away from them. I keep my kids away from people like that. Anyone with such an extreme stance is clearly out of balance.

Most of us guys own up to the fact that we NEED sex physically. Lust is merely an act of biology. If God wired us this way, then by resisting it so such an extreme maybe your stance is an affront. I am not saying go out and screw everything that walks. That is the opposite extreme, and I avoid people like that too. There is such a thing as being balanced and well-adjusted. You are trying to live up to standards under conditions that make them impossible to attain. Perhaps you should consider not holding yourself to the same exact standard of Jesus himself.

72

Christian T-Man Here!

73

Great thread. I really think that those who dismiss ‘Christ as Savior’ out of hand simply haven’t read much if any of the Bible. Having said that though, man is completely a free agent - God surely isn’t going to force compliance here. Just be aware that there isn’t any gray areas with Christ, the ultimate T man, in terms of THE way to get to heaven. (Believe in Him)
As far as masturbation goes, I’d rank it down the list of sins; arrogance, pride and judgementalism being the prime ones - see the rails against the pharisees. But, I can applaud Agathos from the standpoint of being pure and of heeding “as a man thinks, so is he”. The battle really is in the thought life, IMO. And the gracious thing about being a believer is that Christ can give grace to overcome anything in one’s past and also provide grace for the tremendous challenges that each of us face. I’d urge those on the fence to simply ask God to provide an intelligent pastor who knows the Bible better than we know excercise (a rarity I guess)…so that you can find some answers.

74

Your assumptions were wrong again but thats okay! PLEASE JUST READ THIS WITH AN OPEN MIND…

I’ve already said that I don’t beleive sex, lust, etc. are bad or “evil” or “immoral”, youre putting words in my mouth again even after I’ve stated my stance on that.

I’ve seen guys like you a million times too JP. You hear what you want to hear and assume what you want to about religious people and can’t even discuss or debate a topic like this. You’ve lived a lot longer than me and still haven’t matured enough to carry on an intelligent discussion because you’re too busy beating you’re chest yealling “I’m a TMan and yooooo’re nooooot, nyah nyah nyah!”

You’re right about the fact that lust is an inherent thing though, God made us to like sex, to seek out a partner, etc. I think that sex, lust, etc. are healthy. I’ve never mentioned anything about a life of celibacy, nor do I want to even think about those that choose to do so… . I’ll also go so far as to say that there are quite a few Christians/Religious people (fanatics) that aren’t healthy physically/mentally due to their faith and really take it too far.

I ask this last thing in closing JP…

Is this that big of a sacrifice? People have died to be Christian! People have lived lives in torment, torture, improsonment! Just read anything by Dietrich Bonhoeffer or Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, you’ll see that hell is real, even on earth JP!

and ALL Im doing is working out or reading a book or studying instead of fantasizing about some girl I will and should never touch, or spitting in my hand and jerking off for fifteen minutes, and YOU’RE CALLING ME A TIME BOMB!!! You can’t imagine all the time you save. Jeez PEOPLE!!! We’re talking about a decision to read instead of “fantasizing” a couple of times a day. We’re talking about staying up a little later studying instead of hoping in bed early to jerk off. Honestly, what is the big sacrifice here? When I’m married I’ll have all the sex I want, sex! Until then, why fall short of my beleifs for something that really isn’t a big deal…?

75

Agathos:

Not saying this is the only reason I masturbate, because it isn’t, but this is food for thought:

What if you weren’t so sure you are going to get married? Because I’m not so certain I’ll end up married… maybe I will maybe I won’t, that is in God’s hands, but as of this point, given my life, desires, etc thus far, I’d say its a 50/50 thing at best. See the conundrum this presents? No longer is it “I’m not doing this, its worth the wait, I’ll be married one day.”

76

Sniper,

You’ve actually hit on one of my remaining concerns. I know that I’m young still but I still have the concern y’know… anyway, I share your thought process.

My thinking thus far is that I would likely just continue on as now, I was finally able to put a finger on my thoughts in my last reply to JP by stating that it’s really not that big of a deal in my mind anymore (although it certainly used to be…), and that for the most part I don’t struggle with it. I’ll likely just continue not really thinking about it for the most part, at times really having to use self control, at other times maybe breaking down and “letting one off” until I’m married or die…

The reason your question bothers me so much is that I hate to think that I’ll never get to enjoy these things, y’know… My comforting thought to this (careful how you read this as it is MY comforting thought and not aimed at you) is that in the end all things (even marraige) is for the most part temporary, and in the end I’ll be able to face Him and say to Him I lived the life He gave me like I was supposed to, not half-way, no trying to reason an excuse, etc. although I have to be honest and say that this thought does really leave doubt in my mind, and why JPFitness’s sage comments cut so deep…

77

Scipio,
“I really think that those who dismiss ‘Christ as Savior’ out of hand simply haven’t read much if any of the Bible.”

That has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my entire life.
First of all, whether or not I have read the bible is irrelevant. I have read alot of Norse Mythology, Greek ditto and I don’t believe that either. Believing in a text because the text tells you to is just strange.
Second, it isn’t true. I have read alot of the bible, and the entire new testament. It makes for as good a read as many other books.

/Jacob

78

Rep, the Bible ‘as history’ is phenomenally accurate. When you have the Creator asking you to believe in Him, I think that’s fair. Probably, most pastors/ministers are not students of the Bible and don’t back up their ‘sermons’ with much doctrine, which is not a strong example to those not convinced.
Anyway, you have been presented with the Truth and, thusfar, have rejected it. This is free-will in action. Still, I would urge you to further look.

79

I don’t participate in the forums much but I need to add my name to the list and say that, yes all scripture is “God-breathed” (in Greek, “Theopneustos”) and I take every word of it literally.

I leave you with the following from the Heidelberg Catechism.

Enjoy!

LORD’S DAY 1

  1. Q. What is your only comfort in life and death?

A. That I am not my own,1 but belong with body and soul, both in life and in death,2 to my faithful Saviour Jesus Christ.3 He has fully paid for all my sins with His precious blood,4 and has set me free from all the power of the devil.5 He also preserves me in such a way6 that without the will of my heavenly Father not a hair can fall from my head;7 indeed, all things must work together for my salvation.8 Therefore, by His Holy Spirit He also assures me of eternal life9 and makes me heartily willing and ready from now on to live for Him.10

1 1 Cor 6:19, 20.
2 Rom 14:7-9.
3 1 Cor 3:23; Tit 2:14.
4 1 Pet 1:18, 19; 1 Jn 1:7; 2:2.
5 Jn 8:34-36; Heb 2:14, 15; 1 Jn 3:8.
6 Jn 6:39, 40; 10:27-30; 2 Thess 3:3; 1 Pet 1:5.
7 Mt 10:29-31; Lk 21:16-18.
8 Rom 8:28.
9 Rom 8:15, 16; 2 Cor 1:21, 22; 5:5; Eph 1:13, 14.
10 Rom 8:14.

  1. Q. What do you need to know in order to live and die in the joy of this comfort?

A. First, how great my sins and misery are;1 second, how I am delivered from all my sins and misery;2 third, how I am to be thankful to God for such deliverance.3

1 Rom 3:9, 10; 1 Jn 1:10.
2 Jn 17:3; Acts 4:12; 10:43.
3 Mt 5:16; Rom 6:13; Eph 5:8-10; 1 Pet 2:9, 10.

80

Agathos, if you are meant to be married, you will be - trust in God and pray about it. Of course, as I know well, that’s sometimes easier said than done for our worrying minds.

What bothers me is I’m not sure I’m meant to be married… frankly the thought of marriage does not interest me at all. While its normal to not want to be married at 22, most men my age are at least “looking down the road” to marriage - to me the thought of it, even in the distant future is not good. This is depressing to me not just because sex isn’t an option outside of marriage, but mainly because this world can be a cruel place for single people later in life. I look down the road to where all my good friends are married and busy and the picture looks pretty bleak. I’m left with the “choice” of marriage, something that as of now doesn’t interest me, or being utterly alone.

Now of course, this could all be conjecture, and I suppose my thoughts on marriage could make a dramatic turn-around if I meet the right woman - it is nonetheless something that bothers me from time to time.