I’m so confused my posts are taking forever to come up, I edited that first post right after leaving it when I realized I have no idea what USC is talking about. His first post seemed to me to be bashing TMuscle and TMuscle readers but now he seems to be for it and Self-Help. Very confusing.
[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
Self help book are informative articles on improving an aspect of yourself.
Such as TRAINING! Very Good Polo![/quote]
is the information in self help books verifiable the way the information in a training article is? How do we know they will work? Isn’t that why people invest in these types of books, to improve their lives? If you follow the tenets of these books isn’t there still chances that you will not succeed?
On the flip side: if you follow training articles as they are laid out there’s a better chance that you will succeed. Do you agree or disagree? I can see how one could argue that a training article is indeed a self-help vehicle, as you are, in essence, helping yourself achieve a goal, but the ratio of success to failure is completely in favor the training article (75/25) as opposed to the ratio of success to failure of a “self help” book or article where the ratio is more 50/50. Of course, this assessment is based on the tenet that the individual following each program is following it as prescribed with out deviation or hinderance.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]polo77j wrote:
Do you mean informative article on training? If not, can you site an example?[/quote]
Some of the article’s TC used to put out there on Fridays resembled passages from self help books and everyone raved about them in the discussions. I don’t have an example on hand but I think anyone who’s followed his articles might know which ones I’m talking about.[/quote]
Gotcha, but were they actually about training, or more philosophical as you said? And by training I mean nuts and bolts you do this to produce this result training. Not training philosophy
[quote]polo77j wrote:
[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
Self help book are informative articles on improving an aspect of yourself.
Such as TRAINING! Very Good Polo![/quote]
is the information in self help books verifiable the way the information in a training article is? How do we know they will work? Isn’t that why people invest in these types of books, to improve their lives? If you follow the tenets of these books isn’t there still chances that you will not succeed?
On the flip side: if you follow training articles as they are laid out there’s a better chance that you will succeed. Do you agree or disagree? I can see how one could argue that a training article is indeed a self-help vehicle, as you are, in essence, helping yourself achieve a goal, but the ratio of success to failure is completely in favor the training article b[/b] as opposed to the ratio of success to failure of a “self help” book or article where the ratio is more 50/50. Of course, this assessment is based on the tenet that the individual following each program is following it as prescribed with out deviation or hinderance.[/quote]
I love made up statistics!
[quote]smithers584 wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
Yeah you fucking bunch of snatches, quit all the book-learning and trying to improve yourselves. Fuckin losers. WTF is wrong with them?!?![/quote]
Seriously, if you need to read a book to improve yourself, then something is wrong with you.[/quote]
Yeah dude. I know. If you’ve ever read a book and it’s helped you improve yourself, you are an indisputable pickle-smoocher. How the fuck could a book ever help you become better at something? That’s faggot shit.
[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
[quote]Enders Drift wrote:
I’m so confused my posts are taking forever to come up, I edited that first post right after leaving it when I realized I have no idea what USC is talking about. His first post seemed to me to be bashing TMuscle and TMuscle readers but now he seems to be for it and Self-Help. Very confusing.[/quote]
I bash the readers because I sometimes react way too quickly, but I only do so because I think sometimes they are too smart for their own good. I truly believe that people come on here A LOT to seek approval and validation. [/quote]
People seek approval through all sorts of outlets though, what makes tmuscle any different or inferior? It is a community of like minded, intelligent (for the most part) people who can engage in conversation with people of differing opinions. I can see some people doing seeking approval for approvals sake, but I have a hard time believing Brick to be one of those people. He’s always seemed more than confident in his assessments and backs them up with cogent arguments and insightful opinions. I just think he’s seeking differing opinions that can be expressed intelligently. I’m not sure if you’re alluding to Brick being of those people, but since this is his thread I have to assume.
[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
Well it’s for the reader to decide. I use Jim Wendler’s approach to information whether it’s on here, in a book or magazine, if it appeals to me or works, I keep it, if its not, bye bye.
[/quote]
Why would anyone keep what doesn’t work? The only logical reason I can think of is to try to fix or improve upon it…
[quote]polo77j wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]polo77j wrote:
Do you mean informative article on training? If not, can you site an example?[/quote]
Some of the article’s TC used to put out there on Fridays resembled passages from self help books and everyone raved about them in the discussions. I don’t have an example on hand but I think anyone who’s followed his articles might know which ones I’m talking about.[/quote]
Gotcha, but were they actually about training, or more philosophical as you said? And by training I mean nuts and bolts you do this to produce this result training. Not training philosophy[/quote]
The thing is, there are probably a lot of self-help books are very practical and approach their topics in much the same way as a training article does. I haven’t read the book, so yes in many respects I’m talking out of my ass, but How to Win Friends and Influence People seems like it just goes over tips that work. At least according to a wikipedia summary:
For somebody who can’t figure all of those things out from experience, I can’t see why it wouldn’t be a good read and save time and frustration.
Or maybe I’m misunderstanding.
[quote]polo77j wrote:
Gotcha, but were they actually about training, or more philosophical as you said? And by training I mean nuts and bolts you do this to produce this result training. Not training philosophy[/quote]
I don’t know how to just bring up his article’s but I remember reading one about manhood which was about his definition about “manning up”. He wrote about taking responsibility for certain things for example treatment of women and how you should reflect about how you’re living your life. He may have mentioned training in it but it definitely wasn’t an article about training. He’s had a couple other articles with a similar self help tone.
This isn’t the one but it’s an example of what I’m talking about:
My self help books:
The Art of War by Sun Tzu
The Book of Nine Rings by Musashi
The Prince by Machiavelli
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]polo77j wrote:
Gotcha, but were they actually about training, or more philosophical as you said? And by training I mean nuts and bolts you do this to produce this result training. Not training philosophy[/quote]
I don’t know how to just bring up his article’s but I remember reading one about manhood which was about his definition about “manning up”. He wrote about taking responsibility for certain things for example treatment of women and how you should reflect about how you’re living your life. He may have mentioned training in it but it definitely wasn’t an article about training. He’s had a couple other articles with a similar self help tone.
This isn’t the one but it’s an example of what I’m talking about:
[/quote]
I get what you’re referring to; my point was the difference in success ratios between following a training article (which was referred to as a self help article) and following a book like rich dad poor dad or how to win friends and influence people which are self help books in the more traditional sense of the term, or, like the articles you referred to falling into the self-help category. I personally think that the training articles (think 5-3-1) to be a different vehicle of self help than say Under the Bar which is more motivational/self-help. I just think that it’s more of a comparison of apples to oranges which was the conclusion to my line of questioning.
The Law of Atraction for me is the Secret. I saw that shit… and it sucked. It was awesome afterwards how one of the guys on itDavid Schirmer was exposed as a conman. The guy who talks about how after he knew “The Secret” money started coming in the mail. Yeah it was checks from people who’s money he was suposed to invest. Instead he just kept it. What a scum.
[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
[quote]DJS wrote:
The Law of Atraction for me is the Secret. I saw that shit… and it sucked. It was awesome afterwards how one of the guys on itDavid Schirmer was exposed as a conman. The guy who talks about how after he knew “The Secret” money started coming in the mail. Yeah it was checks from people who’s money he was suposed to invest. Instead he just kept it. What a scum. [/quote]
Agreed and one guy is on trial for murder. There’s more to it then the Secret and wished people took a different approach then a sixty minute documentary. Even some of the people who participated were kinda misinformed on how the presentation would work. Oh well.[/quote]
Yeah sorry to say that has been my only exposure to it. Kinda left a sour taste in my mouth. I didn’t even know what it was. I got it on demand one night when there was nothing to get.
the secret/law of attraction works for people who are self-defeatist in nature (and there are many poor schmucks that fit into this category). it simply teaches them perseverance and positivity (keep your eye on the prize or whatever the hell)
…and mixed with it is a bunch of “da vinci code” pseudo-secrecy and fucking pretend quantum mechanics…but the oprah crowd just looooves something like that, dont they? things sell so much better if you add a bit of religiosity to it
those marketing bastards are fucking geniuses. i wish i had been an investor in the whole “the secret” campaign and then i could buy each of you a ferrari.
self help will always be around, because people dont think out their lives very well. i knew people in college who picked their major based on what their ROOMMATE was majoring in!!! wtFFF? … and then they got married bc they knocked up some cheerleader, and then settled for working in their alcoholic father’s office for the rest of their lives. and since their choices are limited by family and religion (dont get me started) they sadly sit in barnes and noble until closing reading “how to be happy” by dr rimjob.
guess what? they probably read self help books all day long because their lives suck
/rant 
hopefully they dont also have a blue waffle
Brian Tracy wrote: “Run from the boring, unfulfilling job as if you were running from a burning building!”
Terribly destructive advice for most common people! First off, the wise thing to leave a boring job in a very calculated, sometimes slow manner, sending out resumes and interviewing in your spare time and then giving two to four weeks notice.
Besides, this is a terrible analogy, because if I were running from a burning building, I wouldn’t be thinking of what other nearby or far-off buildings I can enter; I would just be running for my damn life! That’s NOT how to leave a job wisely.
He also wrote: “Working at a job you don’t love or really care about is a great way to waste your life.”
If everyone bought this crock of shit, modern society would cease to function. Most jobs DON’T warrant love or passion! Serving coffee, stacking orange crates, flipping burgers, cleaning toilets, and even some decently paid manual labor jobs don’t warrant passion, love, or ambition. I highly doubt people mining coals love their job.
I highly doubt that if I stopped on the Throgs Neck Bridge at 3:00 AM and asked a construction worker freezing his ass off in sub-degree weather, “Dude, don’t you love your job?” he’d reply,
“I sure do; I just really love being on this bridge during the wee hours of the morning with 20 degree weather using dangerous equipment and doing grueling, repetitive tasks. It’s a blast!”
Tracy’s whole outlook on employment is rude, condescending, and irresponsible! You don’t need to love a job and MOST people have been in positions in life in which they simply needed to earn a buck because we have expenses to pay - you know, earn a living (it’s called a LIVING for a reason)!
And even if you seek a job you love, what if spots are taken? What do you do then? Wait around starving and penniless? If we all took this deserving, “higher than thou” attitude, we’d all be complaining on T-mag how much starving and being unable to afford gym membership sucks.
He also wrote some other crap like, “Look into the future. Who will you be working with?” AS IF we’ll all one day be in the position to hand-pick the most agreeable, friendly, inoffensive, sensitive, intelligent, affable, gregarious, likable, hard-working, motivated employees and co-workers! AS IF we can even exist in a WORLD only with people who have these attributes!
His closing remark on a compact disc was, “Remember, you are a genius.” Thanks again for insulting human intelligence while telling every listener they’re a genius and fooling morons and incapable people into believing this sort of shit. AS IF someone with a 75 IQ as a genius! AS IF this person is capable of oh-so special feats and accomplishments!
He said, “No one is better than you, and no is smarter than you. People are just smarter and better in different ways.” OK, fair points there; people have different strengths and qualities. But it’s still a load of shit because there are people who are simply GENERALLY smarter than most and wouldn’t have hard time being capable in MANY fields and aspects. It’s just such intelligent people are human beings and can’t focus their energy in hundreds of directions. And people with 75 or below IQs probably won’t demonstrate any sort of high intelligence in any area, so that “no one is smarter than you” shit is indeed SHIT!
I’m just going through stuff that comes to mind now, stuff that I remember…
Donald Trump wrote or said, “If you’re gonna think, think big!” I ask, “Think big for what?” What does the AVERAGE person have to think so goddamn big for? What about showing up to work and just doing an alright job and just getting the fuck over yourself! As I wrote above, if everyone had these dumb over-ambitious attitudes, our world would be in shambles. ESSENTIAL institutions such as schools, military, law enforcement, marriage, hospitals, and nursing homes would be fucking ruined by ambitious, disagreeable, arrogant jerkoffs running around thinking of how special they are and how they’re gonna come out with a killer new business!
Tracy wrote, “The more people seek security, the less they have. The more they seek opportunity, the more security they have.” FALSE! Actually, many people who seek secure jobs, get them, and have life-long careers with security (teachers, cops, firemen, doctors, nurses and other allied healthcare workers). Actually, it’s the “alpha”, “opportunity seeking” camp that I’ve seen fail miserably in various endeavors and wind up in big trouble and MORE BROKE than the seemingly weak, boring, feeble, meek day-job, “beta” workers. Oh, how ironic!
And what business do ORDINARY people have thinking so goddamn big? What business does a toilet cleaner have of thinking so goddamn big? It’s UNCALLED FOR.
And keep in mind when I say this, I am NOT saying that ordinary people shouldn’t have ordinary aspirations - the aspirations of getting all those things EVERYONE wants - recreation, fun, a partner, family, a place to live, and so on.
Unlike these pompous self-help authors, I actually don’t look down on anyone except evil people. Unlike them, I don’t think that a human being is unworthy because they weren’t so fucking monetarily successful, didn’t start their own company, and aren’t worth a fortune.
They also blatantly give people HORRIBLE advice. Take shit-talking Robert Kiyosaki, who believes that YOU, the reader of his awful books, should not bother going to school or learning a trade (ANY trade), but should SOMEHOW come up with enough money to start or buy a business, hire people to work for you, and then sit on your fuckin’ ass NOT WORKING, but collecting money. Great advice.
In one You Tube clip explaining his quadrant diagram that applies to almost no one, he dismissively says something like, “This is where the person seeking a ‘good job’ is; the person seeking security - like a janitor.” Oh, I get it. It’s fine for him to dismiss janitors (after all, we’d only have filthy living and work spaces without them), but hiring one for his office or his own home is just fine.
Onto positive thinking, a relatively NEW concept. Actually, many self-help concepts are very new in the grand scheme of history.
I believe up until about 50 years ago, people weren’t saying fairytale, fruity, flaky, mushy shit (especially about work and romantic life) like:
“Positive thinking” (Actually there was little talk of this, and it certainly wasn’t the central themes of books and tapes and TV shows and movies.)
“Dream job” (People obtained a degree or trade and put their fucking work shoes or boots and went to work. End of story! There wasn’t much talk like, “My creative juices aren’t flowing right now; I think I’ll order a latte and take a ping pong break in the company rec room.”
“Soul mate” and “dream man/woman” (People got married because it was the “right thing to do”. That’s it! Women: You want a kid? You want a family? Guy earns paycheck and seems alright. End of story! No bullshit talk like: “I want someone ‘funny’ (as if every dude is the next Buddy Hacket) and speaks multiple languages.”)
“Law of Attraction” Most people accepted their plight in life and what happened to them in those times and as reality went on, they certainly knew that fuzzy, wishful thinking wasn’t going to change things. When I say they accepted their plight, I mean they just fucking dealt with life. You didn’t have a butcher or shoemaker dreaming, and in some cases, believing they too were going to be multi-millionaires and famous one day!
And these actually have buffoons on Facebook posting feel-good quotes from them and famous and EXTRAORDINARY people.
One women on FB posted, “Why settle for mediocrity when you can have GREATNESS?” Oh yes, we can all have greatness - athletically, academically, scientifically, monetarily, and so on! We can all be great–great athletes like Michael Phelps, great leaders like Julius Caesar, great inventors and scientists like Tesla and Stephen Hawkings, great bodybuilders like Dorian Yates, and great writers like Stephen King. Sure!
What’s even more moronic than quoting self-help authors is quoting the people who actually are great, considering that the people who quote them are nowhere near the great ones in intellect and achievement and capability.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
They also blatantly give people HORRIBLE advice. Take shit-talking Robert Kiyosaki, who believes that YOU, the reader of his awful books, should not bother going to school or learning a trade (ANY trade), but should SOMEHOW come up with enough money to start or buy a business, hire people to work for you, and then sit on your fuckin’ ass NOT WORKING, but collecting money. Great advice.
[/quote]
I agree, but to me, this is kind of like reading Matt Furey and saying, “strength coaches are worthless.” You have your schysters and con artists, but you also have guys who are putting legitimate, practical advice out there.
I see things such as patience, discipline, interpersonal skills, body language, etc., as “muscles” that can be trained in the same manner as a squat or deadlift. You come up with a plan, you stress your system, and then you allow for recovery time. Over time, you adapt and become better/stronger.
That’s pretty much how the human body works, and I think that when you view it through this lense, it’s easy to see which guys are full of crap and which have something useful to offer.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]smithers584 wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
Yeah you fucking bunch of snatches, quit all the book-learning and trying to improve yourselves. Fuckin losers. WTF is wrong with them?!?![/quote]
Seriously, if you need to read a book to improve yourself, then something is wrong with you.[/quote]
Yeah dude. I know. If you’ve ever read a book and it’s helped you improve yourself, you are an indisputable pickle-smoocher. How the fuck could a book ever help you become better at something? That’s faggot shit.[/quote]
Let me clear this up. I am talking about books that people read to feel better about themselves, not books to educate you on a different aspect of life. I am talking about books that people read to “be a better person” or “how to stop being a loser” type books, not cooking books or training articles.
If you have a problem with yourself (as in, your personality, confidence, some psychological issues), you shouldnt need a book to tell you how to fix it. Everyone knows what they should/shouldnt do, its intrinsic to “most” humans. So, if you need to read a book to help you fix these issues, then you have problems, and yes, I know there are people like this around us.
Sounds like you a big fan of these books yourself Sam. And thats fine, just dont expect the rest of the world to believe some book is going to solve your problems, when really all you have to do is reach down, find your sack, and confront the problems yourself. Self Help books are just roadmaps for people who cant find their own sack.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Who else here wants to tell the whole assortment of charlatans, knaves, rubes, liars, manipulators, and hucksters of the self-help movement to take a flying leap and to take their Law of Attraction and shove it up their asses?
This thread will be dedicated to ripping this disastrous, destructive “movement” apart.
In particular, I’d like to criticize the written work of Brian Tracy because when I was very young and naive, actually read a few of this man’s books and actually fell for much of the crap in them. [/quote]
I think your way off base with this. Granted there are certain books in this field that are better than others, but over all I think the basic theme of working hard and thinking positive is exactly the right thing to do. My first self-help book was from Zig Ziglar and I can honestly say it changed my life for the better.