hip hop get a bad rap (christ, did i just type that?) because of the mainstream artists, the ones that sing about bitches n hoes. Just like any other type of music if you look around you can find intelligently written hip hop. I can easily find shitty rock music and shitty jazz music.
By the way listen to “Uncommon Valor: A Vietnam Story” by jedi mind tricks, the best part is like…a minute and a half in.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Guys like me don’t like it for many reasons. I don’t like it because they don’t play instruments.
I put it below jazz, rock, and funk. I just put these guys on the same level as Robert plant, Casandra Wilson, or George Clinton. It has nothing to do with prejudice, more the perception that it takes less natural ability to steal someone else’s music and rhyme than to compose a song and use your natural vocal ability with some actual playing instruments.
If you like it fine, I don’t like it much for the above reasons.[/quote]
While I accept your argument, it troubles me. I have musician friends who make the same statement – hip hop isn’t enjoyable because anyone can rap. (Although I know these weren’t your exact words, I will assume it was implied since the complaint was “they don’t play instruments” and I would consider vocals as an instrument.)
To this I dare you to try to rap. Practice it. Record it and show me that it’s as good and polished as most artists out today. Take a year to do this if you have to, but try it. I doubt you will be able to do it, even if you dedicate yourself to it.
I firmly believe rapping is, much of the time, more difficult than singing. Most people can learn to sing at least acceptably, but I would wager that very few can learn to rap well.
Again, I accept your dislike of hip hop. This is simply to serve as a device to help you appreciate it more than you do now.
Hip hop starting as a means to get ones’ point across. To tell a story or express a feeling. It was about standing up for civil rights and showing how things “were”.
That being said, I enjoy a lot of hip hop. Grandmaster flash - The Message. Ice cube - It was a good day. Etc.
But I wholeheartedly believe that rap and hip hop as Nas put it, is dead. The content and quality has been comprimised for commercial gains. Too much bling and people talking about things they know nothing of. What happened to talking about things that are meaninful?
As an example. There was a song by some kid that was into skateboarding that went “Kick, push, kick push, gliiide.” It really spoke to me because it was something he enjoyed and wanted to get a point across. It was effective.
Conversly, there was a song by Nelly about robbing jewlry store and making grills(for your teeth) that was just utterly retarded. It is a horrible song, imho, and meant nothing to most people.
Whether you like it or not; whether you think it is created by talent or is overtly simple; you cannot disagree with numbers.
Rap/hip-hop is selling big, which means that someone out there has to be enjoying it. But is it quality, or is it just a nice beat?
[quote]malonetd wrote:
Ryan555 wrote:
If I can write a better, more completely developed piece of music in 10 minutes, then it’s not art. Entertainment, sure, but art it’s not.
I have no problem with hip-hop or people listening to it, but don’t kid yourself that it’s high art.
What would make your composition better? Or more completely developed?
“The greatest art is created by the fewest strokes, fewest notes, and fewest words”
Elegance of expression in music – the ability to say the most with the fewest notes.
…[/quote]
More Cowbell!
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
malonetd wrote:
Ryan555 wrote:
If I can write a better, more completely developed piece of music in 10 minutes, then it’s not art. Entertainment, sure, but art it’s not.
I have no problem with hip-hop or people listening to it, but don’t kid yourself that it’s high art.
What would make your composition better? Or more completely developed?
“The greatest art is created by the fewest strokes, fewest notes, and fewest words”
Elegance of expression in music – the ability to say the most with the fewest notes.
…
More Cowbell![/quote]
Another brilliant skit with Will Farrel and Christopher Walken.
Fuck hip hop. It is anti culture.
Watch American Idol; singing is NOT something most can learn to do well. The fact that every other 12 yr old I see can rap (and wants to be a rapper) tells me that it is not only easier than singing but if they like it it must also be garbage (I’m talking about the partcular songs and “artists” they like and not rap in general). When I was 10 I listened to KISS and KISS is not the Beatles but what did I know at that age.
Another point that has not been addressed is the theory I have that overexposure to rap makes one retarded. Where I used to work it was as if the headphones were glued to these kids’ ears. They couldn’t sit still and keep their mouths shut for 10 seconds without reciting some ignorant “poetry.”
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Guys like me don’t like it for many reasons. I don’t like it because they don’t play instruments.
I put it below jazz, rock, and funk. I just put these guys on the same level as Robert plant, Casandra Wilson, or George Clinton. It has nothing to do with prejudice, more the perception that it takes less natural ability to steal someone else’s music and rhyme than to compose a song and use your natural vocal ability with some actual playing instruments.
If you like it fine, I don’t like it much for the above reasons.[/quote]
Legit reasons.
I feel the same way you do OP. I love hip-hop. It’s not all negative. The Key is to have an open-mind and fools like Bill O’Reilly lack that ability.
-Kevin
[quote]eyver wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Guys like me don’t like it for many reasons. I don’t like it because they don’t play instruments.
I put it below jazz, rock, and funk. I just put these guys on the same level as Robert plant, Casandra Wilson, or George Clinton. It has nothing to do with prejudice, more the perception that it takes less natural ability to steal someone else’s music and rhyme than to compose a song and use your natural vocal ability with some actual playing instruments.
If you like it fine, I don’t like it much for the above reasons.
While I accept your argument, it troubles me. I have musician friends who make the same statement – hip hop isn’t enjoyable because anyone can rap. (Although I know these weren’t your exact words, I will assume it was implied since the complaint was “they don’t play instruments” and I would consider vocals as an instrument.)
To this I dare you to try to rap. Practice it. Record it and show me that it’s as good and polished as most artists out today. Take a year to do this if you have to, but try it. I doubt you will be able to do it, even if you dedicate yourself to it.
I firmly believe rapping is, much of the time, more difficult than singing. Most people can learn to sing at least acceptably, but I would wager that very few can learn to rap well.
Again, I accept your dislike of hip hop. This is simply to serve as a device to help you appreciate it more than you do now.[/quote]
Why should I waste my time listening to a style of music that I don’t enjoy, when there are others that I do.
I’ll never consider rapping talent to be on par with the talent of Hendrix, Page, Clapton in regards to playing ability and the vocals of Aretha Franklin, Roger Daltrey, Eva Cassidy, or Cassandra Wilson.
If you like it fine, not all entertainment has to be of the highest standards to according to some critic. I love a lot of popular music that I would regard as crap. It gives me enjoyment.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Why should I waste my time listening to a style of music that I don’t enjoy, when there are others that I do.
[/quote]
For the same reason you would waste your time discussing and degrading a style of music that you claim you don’t enjoy.
Dear Rhythmless Nation,
Don’t hate because you can’t find the beat or can’t dance.
How many of those beats were taken from songs previously recorded by white artists?
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
How many of those beats were taken from songs previously recorded by white artists? [/quote]
I was ready to give up on this thread.
Now I have given up on it.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
How many of those beats were taken from songs previously recorded by white artists? [/quote]
How much of “white” rock and roll was stolen from “black” music?
I think the talent in hip hop mostly belongs to the producers and not the guy voicing the lyrics, unless they are the same guy.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
zecarlo wrote:
How many of those beats were taken from songs previously recorded by white artists?
How much of “white” rock and roll was stolen from “black” music?
I think the talent in hip hop mostly belongs to the producers and not the guy voicing the lyrics, unless they are the same guy.[/quote]
I didn’t think that would have the same effect if I had written it. I’m glad you did.
The 60’s saw the greatest raping of black music creations. Trying to claim that Hip Hop is based on stealing “white music” is beyond retarded…especially when most artists today whose samples are used are getting paid pretty damn well for the sample. I agree that the producers deserve a lot of credit, but true fans of Hip hop are often more focused on the style of the artist, not just the beat.
When both of them are great, then you have stand out artists like TuPac, BIG, Eminem, or Snoop. They just owe a lot of credit to the Dr. Dre’s and Puffs.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
How many of those beats were taken from songs previously recorded by white artists? [/quote]
Until Hip-hop grew to a level where there were more producers who were able to afford their own studios and costs associated, this was a common practice. But black artists were/are sampled as well. Mostly noted would be James Brown. If I remember correctly, he didn’t have a problem with it, embraced it actually.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
zecarlo wrote:
How many of those beats were taken from songs previously recorded by white artists?
How much of “white” rock and roll was stolen from “black” music?
I think the talent in hip hop mostly belongs to the producers and not the guy voicing the lyrics, unless they are the same guy.
I didn’t think that would have the same effect if I had written it. I’m glad you did.
The 60’s saw the greatest raping of black music creations. Trying to claim that Hip Hop is based on stealing “white music” is beyond retarded…especially when most artists today whose samples are used are getting paid pretty damn well for the sample. I agree that the producers deserve a lot of credit, but true fans of Hip hop are often more focused on the style of the artist, not just the beat.
When both of them are great, then you have stand out artists like TuPac, BIG, Eminem, or Snoop. They just owe a lot of credit to the Dr. Dre’s and Puffs.[/quote]
Just remember the greatest rapper ever is white! (Which means I can understand Eminem’s lyrics). I have trouble following what most of the other guys are saying unless they use subtitles like on MTV2.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
zecarlo wrote:
How many of those beats were taken from songs previously recorded by white artists?
How much of “white” rock and roll was stolen from “black” music?
[/quote]
Every rock and roller from the fifties on. If it wasn’t for the black mans blues, there would be no rock. Hell, even I know that.
I don?t like most hip-hop because it is crap. It is bubblegum pop with ?attitude?. Image selling in the age of video. Don?t expect me to pay for something that took 5 more minutes to create than it took me to listen to.
Much of the lyrics are racist too.
I disagree that the music is bad. The music makes hip-hop and is where most of the talent is. Ever hear most rappers with out the beats? It is painfully bad. It?s not an accident producers make big bucks and are often stars in their own right.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
How many of those beats were taken from songs previously recorded by white artists? [/quote]
I don’t think it’s fair to make it a white black thing. I’m not a big fan of hip hop, but that doesn’t meant I dislike black artists. I just don’t like the hip hop genre to much.
But I like R&B, jazz, funk, hard rock, and classic rock with some old school country. All these genres have taken from each other. It’s just the way og music.